Back at the Ranch with Stoli
Jul 28th, 2009 by Carolyn Resnick Method
Julia and I worked with Stoli today. First, we kept him company to start our daily work. He is now feeling a bond with both of us and even enjoying our company.
We are working on body releasing techniques to get him to release any bad memories that could get in the way of his willingness from trust issues in the past. Body work helps a horse to feel safe enough to be intimate with you and this is important. If a horse will not allow you to be intimate with him it is not a good idea in general to think about riding because it sets an attitude of not being fluid and fluidity is very important in dressage. Since Stoli is 21 years old he needs all the fluidity he can get. We discovered Stoli is an amazingly agile horse and loves doing carrot stretches and this one in particular as you can see below:
Stoli doing his agile excercise – he offered this to us completely umprompted
He is a great lesson horse for Julia because he is very locked in some areas and is responding very slowly, which is giving her plenty of practice. We found an unwillingness to give to the first Uberstreichen Exercise and we began working him through this. After that, we took him to the arena without a companion horse. This was a big step for him. He rolled and ran for about for about three minutes looking to get back to the barn, then I caught him and led him back.
Julia and I can see that he is coming along very slowly and we can also see that he is much better and more trusting. It is important to see both sides of the improvement and the lack of improvement to be discerning.
I hope by the middle of week we will have a horse that we can ride. He has been here two weeks now. Once he is used to the environment in the arena he should be happy to get back to his exercise program. At this stage of the game it is all about discernment. Knowing how to approach the relationship, lesson and goals for Julia and myself and knowing how to approach Stoli in a way that will win his support and willingness to relax and give lessons.
I want to try to stay away from struggle because it is a sign that I have stepped out of harmony and unity. I always look for a loss of harmony and unity as this is not the practice of the art of horsemanship. Without harmony and unity, I have no natural support from either the horse or the environment. Though sometimes you must push to get results, the percentage should be low and the relationship well seasoned. I do believe it is a way to test the waters, it is sometimes helpful to push for results providing you can do it without disturbing the bond. If you make a mistake from testing, you can repair it easily from your willingness to see your error.
You need to be careful in wanting to push for perfection when you are trying to reach goals because the struggle can push away the goals you are trying to achieve. Anyway, pushing Stoli would never be a choice for me because of his age.
I will update you more on our joint progress in the weeks ahead.
Enjoy your week
Carolyn
No related posts.
Hello Ms Resnick. I just wanted to say that I am deeply grateful for you working with this horse. I knew Stoli. I rode him for nearly six years until I got to my sophomore year and couldn’t find much time to visit him anymore. The “agile exercise” that he is performing is him attempting to bow for you. We tried to teach him various tricks and bowing was one of them. He needed us to lift one of his legs for him to fully sink into the bow but he tried to do it by himself multiple times as well. I have various pictures of him performing the same action. It brings tears to my eyes to see him so happy. Thank you a million times over.
i do use treats with some of my horses as a reward. some i do not. i play in the pastures with them or just hang out with them.i also offer them reiki and they love it. i think they are constantly sending messages to us. every horse is different -just like people. at liberty play is a great training tool for the horses and i think both the horses and people learn alot this way.
Joncy wrote:
“I dont believe in feeding treats to get a horse to do something.Thats like bribery, I want them to do it because they want to.”
Joncy, why would a treat be bribery and another form of reward, like e.g. stroking, wouldn’t? I think it’s all about how you can make a horse feel good about what he does and what we ask of him. The way to achieve that the easiest way can be different for each horse. If treats prove to be a great method for a specific horse, why not use them? I think one limits training possibilities by labeling a form of reward as wrong, no matter what.
OH!…I got it :>)
Thank you very much Carolyn!
hi carolyn, I read about the mirroring exercises you do with your horses, and i cant agree more. I go out in the pasture 2 or 3 times a week and just hang out with them. They come up to me and just play around. I have a mule named masey that i have’nt had time to work with yet. You have to block her in the barn to catch her, but after the mirroring exercise she comes up to me in the pasture and lets me rub her. In short i know it works. Thanks again for your blogs. joncy
Dear Marueritte,
When I talked about the mirrored responses I was not talking about exercies to do or a program. When a horse is not connected to be at liberty in a field I will follow and join the horse for a long period. In that period I respond to what ever the horse does so the horse sees that I am being influnace by his feelings and actions.
If a horse looks somewhere I will look in that direction, If a horse lies down I will too. I will match his breath and snorts as a way to be with him in the moment and what he is focused on.
When the horse’s spend time with me breathing in a soft way and when we are finished with this interchange they will then usually want to stay with me in the same way I chose to stay with them.
Hope this is of help.
Hello again, someone ask me about the nick-nacks. I dont believe in feeding treats to get a horse to do something.Thats like bribery, I want them to do it because they want to. As for the roundpen work it’s just so the horse will keep his attention on me. Once i get that then i can get him to latch on to me and trust me. After that its just patience and time. As for the bits, i never put them in my horses mouth. I ride withand train all horses with only a halter. my appaloosa is 3yrs old and i ride him on trailrides all the time with nothing but a hackmore. As for miss Carolyn she knows what she’s doing, people just do things different with the same results. I read all her blogs and i respect what shes doing to help people , Keep up the good work…joncy
What about the mirroring exercises? Is there a video in the making for this as well? Can anyone give some ideas?
This post is starting to feel like “Dancing alone”!!
Joncy, What are the nick-nacks you are referring to in training?
Thanks Carolyn, for clarifying the confusion about the Überstreichen exercises. I’ll just have to wait for the DVD then; attending one of your clinics is not really an option for me on the other side of the ocean (Holland!)
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Joncy,
I felt compelled to respond because I think your assertion that time frames are important is a brash comment. Humans don’t respond well to timeframes, nor do horses. We all know that there are other ways to train a horse and there are CERTAINLY faster ways to work with a horse, but none of them create a solid, stable equine/human relationship. Further, the fact that you advocate round pens tells me that you don’t understand liberty training or her method. Her point in training is that a horse has to be willing, and has to be free to make a choice. You are not giving a horse a choice by putting him in a round pen; he has no escape. Therefore, he has to do what you tell him to do to avoid the chase. I am not speaking for Carolyn and I don’t know what her thoughts are on this matter, but what I’ve realized when working with her program is that although it takes longer, it provides a solid horse-human connection. When you get on the horse, there is NEVER a buck (as opposed to the “Most horses I break don’t try to buck…” comment you made), and there is NEVER a spook. You don’t ride the horse unless you KNOW he’s not going to buck. I think prior to disparaging her, you need to try her program. You clearly have a fundamental misunderstanding of what she stands for. Nonetheless, I wish you luck.
There appears to be a little confusion over some of my recent blog posts and I’d like to clear them up.
- I have agreed to look after Stoli for a short while for someone. As with all my other horses, he is really enjoying the Waterhole Rituals with us. I have no fixed outcome for our time together and as always, the horse comes first. I write more about this in tomorrow’s blog post.
- As for the Uberstreichen excercises, I realize I have mentioned them several times recently and not given any further explanation. The reason for this is that not only are they very difficult to describe in writing but they are also very difficult to do without direct guidance.
We are about halfway through finishing the Waterhole Ritual DVDs and then we may move on to the Uberstreichen DVDs next, so I’m afraid you’ll have to wait a little while longer for those unless you come to one of my Dance With Horses private clinics.
- Also, a few people have commented on my use of bits. You need to understand my background, which involves both classical dressage and riding bridleless at liberty. I like to ride with and without a bit but here’s the difference. I have never used bits as a means of force and pain, only as an enhanced means of communication with a horse that is completely trained without a bit and with whom I have a fabulous connection.
One of my teachers once said to me that if I couldn’t ride with threads for reins, then I shouldn’t use a bit at all. When I train a dressage horse, he is so light and the communication between us so subtle that you wouldn’t even know there was any tension in the rein. I don’t command or insist, I merely suggest. In my opinion, people should be able to ride a horse at liberty through the movements before they even start to use a bit.
I’m not telling you that you should use bits or not use bits, that’s entirely up to you. I know that some people do like to use a bit and so my advice a couple of weeks ago was intended to help those who do.
Thanks
Carolyn
Hi Brenda, you’re saying that the exercises are not for free, but Carolyn replied the following to me in april:
“The first step is to understand the theory and purpose because then you can use them to there best use. I will give you exercises on the blog soon.”
Sorry Carolyn, don’t want to be annoying or ‘contaminate’ this topic, but I’m confused here whether we are or are not getting specifics of the exercises on your blog soon? Could you please clarify? Thanks
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Well i’ve read all your blogs, but i am a horse trainer too. I disagree with the nick-nacks to get a horse to do something. It leads to problems later. I also disagree with the time frame on breaking a horse. I usually have a saddle on my horse ,and working him in the round pen the 3rd week of training. Depending on the horse. In short do all your roundpen work and you should’nt have any problems. Most horses i break never try to buck when i ride them. Good luck everyone, and be careful. Joncy
Marja, they’re not for free, as I understand, but there’s gonna be a DVD. One that I’m definately gonna buy. I’m really looking forward to that, as I have also become very curious about these mysterious exercises.
Evergreen, I have the same thing. It’s pretty hard not to get pushy because that was what horsemanship always was about for me. When I’m doing it, I don’t even notice that I’m pushy, only in retrospect I realise what mistakes I made. Thank you for sharing that story, it will help me too.
Hi Carolyn,
, so I read the earlier posts on the Überstreichen exercises in april. Several readers asked about the specifics of the exercises back then, which you then promised to give on your blog soon. However, I haven’t seen any information on the exercises since, or am I perhaps missing something? Of course all background info on them is invaluable and very welcome, but what I missed so far is a detailed description of the exercises.
Of course I never miss a single one of your blogposts
Hi Carolyn, We are all still curious about the Uberstreichen Exercises– in April, you wrote ABOUT them at length without revealing exactly WHAT those exercises are.
Thanks ahead for your sharing about this.
I am resonating with your words about pushing and losing the harmony. Last night I was spending some no fences time with Eddie and he was having great fun grazing. I spent the first part sharing space, then moved to reciprocal movements and saying hello. I was hoping to get to companion walking, but Eddie did not seem to want to do that. I felt my self getting frustrated and feeling that pushing energy you speak of. So, I told myself to go sit down until I could feel the joy again. So I did this. I had to do this several times, whenever the frustration came back. In the end, we did not do companion walking as I was able to see that Eddie was saying ‘no, not tonight.’
It was a battle for me to listen to myself and ‘sit down’, but I did it and I see that by doing that, I did not lose ground by pushing too hard. Next time we are together, I believe Eddie will trust me more because I did not push, and let him have his time.
Thank you for the teaching.
Hi Carolyne,
I am enjoying your sharing Stoli’s journey. Thank you
A few of us had requested some examples about mirroring the horses’ behavior.
Can you indulge us?
I am concerned that the request and repeated request could be annoying you because the answer is too elementary. In this case, I am sorry. I am just a beginner trying to learn.
Margueritte
Hi Carolyn~
It’s very refreshing that you are giving Stoli the gift of “Time” to acclimate and bond. He has unwittingly given you a gift as well, by the photo! The fact that his responses are not scripted (familiar)makes this even more interesting. I enjoy your responses to his actions (ie. mimic, drive away from the gate, etc.). One can only imagine what experiences a 21-year-old horse has had in his lifetime, so perhaps this visit will afford him to feel more confident, stretch a little further than he ever has, and actually enjoy performing dressage as never before! Julia, what a wonderful gift and experience, enjoy!
If you go to the archives the article is in 2 parts in the month of April 2009. Read it and if you have any questions let me know. I offer this work privately at my ranch by appointment. Hope this helps. There will also be a DVD released soon.
Hi Carolyn,
I’m still curious about the ‘Überstreichen exercises’. Could you please explain them? Thanks.
I am a student of horses seeking learned information about working with horses at liberty where the horse has a say in how things go. The last three posts from you, Carolyn have left me confused.
Your blog about bit use seemed very abrupt and out of context to the discussions as they were going and you never did clarify why you felt bits should ever be used in the first place. As was commented by a reader, if everything can be done, including advanced movements, why add a bit?
Following this you have procured a horse to help your student Julia learn. But you only have three months to work with her. Expectations for Stoli’s performance seem tied to Julia’s expectations for the trade in helping you with your project.
Stoli sounds like a horse that needs more than three months to work out his issues. Maybe he doesn’t but why put a time line to it?
And today you have said that things are going slowly. Two weeks is not slow – unless you have a short deadline ahead of you.
Why is it so important to have a horse that you can ride? From what you have said about this horse it seems he really needs a break from so much regimented work – his unwillingness to give to the first Uberstreichen exercise seems a clear message from the horse that he would rather not.
Even though you said earlier that Stoli seemed to enjoy his ridden dressage work, could it be for some other reason than the work itself? Was it the only time he got out of his stall or enclosure?
Could you clarify
how riding will be advantageous to Stoli at this point.
What happens to this horse after this project with Julia?
Can you also clarify your opinion of bit use? What is the benift to the horse?
Sincerely,
Donna