Boundaries and How to Use Them…continued
Mar 23rd, 2010 by Carolyn Resnick Method
Hello. Hope you liked the idea last week about the podcast and haven’t been put off too much by all the technology. Mark said that there have been a few emails, so he has set up an page on the site, where you can ask questions and more importantly read the responses. Click FAQ Page to read more.
I am delighted to be able to announce our first podcast has arrived and here it is:
Nature Helps in Bonding With Horses – read by Beth Schang
To download the MP3 version, right click this link and then select Save Target As.. or Save Link As
In future, we will post all new recordings on this special Podcasts Page as well as on their relevant post. Thanks Beth – very nice!
So today’s post is a continuation of our discussion last week about boundaries. Now that I have shared with you my observations about rude behavior and how horses use flexible boundaries that create a cohesive herd and deep friendships, you might ask how boundaries could create friendships between horses so I would like to explain this point.
When someone is rude, they do not care about the other person’s feelings. Once a person cares about someone there is a natural politeness that follows that also brings about a care-taking attitude.
When another horse sets boundaries the horse that respects those boundaries eventually has to consider the other horses feelings, which interrupts their agenda and self-interest. When this happens an automatic interest in the other horse is created. The evolution of his response causes the horse to feel friendship and respect.
I brought what I had learned from my study of how horses form alliances into my training Method. The reason communicating with a horse like a horse is so powerful is that you can create a bond that is less conditional, much like the bond horses share with one another. Once I gained the ability to communicate with horses in this way, I found a deeper connection than what most horses share. This was a surprise to me.
I had found a cross-species bond. And it is a magical bond.
From this discovery, I developed a greater appreciation for others and life brought me more meaning. It turned me into an optimistic being with a practical, altruist attitude. I developed a love for community caring for the individual and the individual caring for community. I became aware that all movements are a dance in matching patterns in the moment, both in chaotic and harmonious times. There are intervals in time that carry attitudes and needs that must be met or allowed to be. I learned how to fit in and lead horses. Anything will naturally follow a leader that brings more meaning and abundance to the needs in the moment. I lose my agenda since that does not match the moment.
In training or riding, I never address rude behavior because my goal is to inspire a feeling in the horse of wanting to be soft and polite and having a great desire to follow my lead. Before a horse exhibits rude behavior, when the moments are relaxed at liberty on the ground, I reconnect with a horse. I refresh the relationship with the daily practice of the Waterhole Rituals before I ride and train. This way I do not have to be as firm in setting boundaries if a conflict does arise. Boundaries are easy to set because the horse doesn’t have a strong interest in being rude he is naturally more willing to listen.
I go through an everyday checklist to establish the flexible boundaries that bring about a friendship, respect, and trust. Here is the checklist:
If the answer is no, then I set these bounders with my horse for that day. If they are not easy to set, I share space and ask for nothing more until the segment of time evolves the relationship to a another segment of time that is easier to set bounders.
If your horse responds positively to my checklist, your horse should work with you very well in any pursuit and not be rude. If your horse shows rudeness you probably are not handling yourself appropriately toward your horse or you are asking him to do something that needs to be put to him in another way, or changed to a different subject to allow the support and connection to return between the two of you.
As I said, I make sure these four circumstances are agreed upon before any training and riding. I use the first five Rituals to reestablish the bond trust, respect, focus and willingness, and then I test the boundaries. When I ask for performance it is always a request and never a demand or an insistence. If training and riding is your self-agenda, you need to be more polite to your horse so you won’t disrupt his interest in partnering with you.
When a horse responds positively to my checklist, I ride. I am a guest on my horse’s back when I ride. Riding is a privilege he offers me and not a right. I ride suggesting my lead rather than demanding and pointing out things I do not like about his behavior. He is not my slave. He is a willing partner and if he is not willing I figure out how to put the willingness back in him without pointing out to him he has to do anything for me or that he is rude. (Sure there are times that I am strong in my leadership when I ride but only on rare occasions. I can try being strong with a demand for leadership but it is only an experiment and if that does not work I quit and let the horse have his way.)
I seldom have any problems because I do my homework on the ground first. If I have tack on my horse while I am leading him, I try to work with the horse rather than look for holes or problems. The Uberstreichen Exercises put a horse in a very willing connection with tack. After the Waterhole Rituals checklist is passed and adding in the Uberstreichen Exercises, I have a very willing horse. At this point I need to lead him in a way that will keep the dance and connection alive.
To put perspective on how to be with a horse, I want to again point to the social behavior of humans. A guest would never point out to the host at a social function that they are being rude. It is not the guest’s place to do that. It is not practical either.
A famous America Indian spiritual leader, I do not remember his name, once said: “I must find out where my people want to go so I can lead them there.” This is how we want to approach our horses when we ask the horse to be in service and go somewhere we would like him to go.
In the Waterhole Rituals we are not asking for any self serving act we are only working on relationship with the focus on team work building and creating and optimistic horse sharing a magnetic connection and a desire in the horse to want to learn, follow your lead and perform.
I hope the above make as much sense to you as it does to me and I look forward to reading your responses.
By the way, this YouTube is a wonderful example of how to create a response without a demand.
Carolyn
P.S. Remember – On Thursday I will have news about the next Waterhole Rituals Insider Circle, so be sure to tell your friends via Facebook by using the using the blue f-Share button below.
No related posts.
My horse “Besy” just came from England in November and as she is already 8 years old and has been hauling caravans to and from the fairs every year, she is very set in her ways. If you walk into a pen with any kind of a whip, she will start to run away and keep going until she sweats herself up or until you put it away. There are two other horses in this paddock with her and it is very large (probably 60 feet by 100). she can move to one end from the other and not even be near me. I would like to become at liberty with her and I have spent much time with her both in the arena so she can have a good roll in the sand and outside in the paddock with her and the other two. Besy will not face me when I approach her whether she is at food or not, she will not move towards me or even away from me while I make the hand movements and tell her to leave. She is not afraid of me and does not respect me and she certainly will not remain on the ground when I try to get close to her while she is laying down. Where do you start when a horse is already broke to harness (not riding) and all you want is to build a relationship with her based on no restraints and no harness. She is so strong that even in her halter, you have to really pull her head away from something like a bale of hay that she has pushed into as you passed with her into the barn. The only respect she has is for that whip but she will just run away and keep away from it and you while you hold it. I am desperate for help with her. She will be foaling in mid May and I plan on starting out right with the foal and if you know anyone looking for a Gypsy Vanner that will be for sale only to a family that will follow the schooling of no metal, no restraints and no punishment, they could contact me. I know these horses were made to work and to be used in harness and shows but I do not respect the horse industry and cannot support it for all of it’s cruelty. I saw a farrier hit one of the horses I board with and I won’t let him even touch Besy again, let alone trim her, besides I want to use a barefoot practitioner who knows what they’re doing.
Thank you for another uplifting and wonderful post. I just love this approach of friendship and your way of leadership and also to relax in that what is. From there comes appreciation, love and learning.
My horse is very polite and nearly never rude and understands immediately if he was. With him it is more about letting deeper relationship evolve and not being rude myself and expect too much. Each blog is so helpful and supportive.
Thank you Carolyn and thank you Beth, beautifully read.
Ang.
Would it be possible to have the podcasts downloadable? i would so love to be able to listen to them on my mp3 player out at the barn or in the fields and so on…?
I sit in front of a pc all day long and it is so good to listen on an mp3 gazing at the mountains and fields and my horse rather than at a screen….or out of the window!
I print out the blogs and take them with me too, I know many of us do that, it brings it all closer and more ‘real’ somehow!
anyway, many thanks for the podcast anyway, it’s a brilliant idea and many thanks to Beth. I loved the video – genius idea!
best to all
susan
Beautiful post Carolyn, and I loved the video, thank you!
Checking in, many thanks as ever!
best
susan
Dear Caroln and Beth,
Thank you so much for today’s post. Listenig to Beth really connected me to you both far away in the States – it is the most sophisticated virtual blog/classroom/learning space that I have seen!!
I can answer yes to all of questions on the checklist and I put this down to the bond that has developed through this method and the attention to the relationship rather than a pre-set goal. I was particularly interested in your discussion with Christian about inviting a horse to come to you as well as away from. I find that now Sun always wants to come to me in the open barn as well as in the field. In the barn I believe it is because she seeks out the things we do together such as UEs because they are a stimulating break from eating hay! Through the UEs she has become more ‘cuddly’ – by that I mean she seems to like my affectionate strokes and rubs and sweet words more. Before this she was quite aloof. As we have done things for quite a few months now, she seems to see me come into field and says – “ahh, it’s you, right, lets go and…”.I’ve also been walking with her in her field, following and leading, looking at things she looks at.
One thing she does so in the barn is try to get rid of the lower ranking horses from my company, being respectful to me, but strategically trying to control who goes near me! However, it gives me a good opportunity to move her away and not have her come back!
I can’t wait for the IC to begin!
Many thanks for all of your energy and comitment in helping us become horse listeners,
Dear Carolyn,
I have been studying your latest posts with great attention and understand more and more how to stay in a horses company, with what attitude. These are universal rules of how to live in a comunity. Natural politeness, flexible boundaries. I get so much too reflect on. Thank you and my horse for these great lessons. Life lessons. I feel I’m receiving a great gift. I free myself of many conditionings, behaviour mental patterns. We humans often imprison ourself in “iron fences” and do so with our horses. I’d like to dedicate you a beautiful song by Elton John and Luciano Pavarotti “Live like horses – liberi come i cavalli”, where these iron fences are addressed. I don’t know how to include it in this mail. But you can find it on youtube.
The idea of the podcasts is wonderful, it goes straight to the heart, and I admit some tears came into my eyes when I heard Beth Schang read your post. Thank you Beth.
I would love to translate some of your words into Italian. I could be one of your voices this way, if you agree. I’m creating a blog, that wants to be a little contribution to make life for humans and horses happier: http:equvitare.blogspot.com
My best
Andrea
Hi Carolyn
Just checking in. Very informative post, thanks
Hi Carolyn,
I just finished Naked Liberty I could not put it down,it was very timely as I broke my foot last week and needed to sit for the w-e with it up and I’m not good with just sitting indoors but the weather was crap and I settled in with your book. Wow, a few days before I read your book I saw Avaatar and I believe you could have written the screenplay the amazing bond with the animals and sharing territory really resonated with me. You are before your time with all of the gifts and talents you share as well as ahead of your time if you know what I mean. I feel very blessed to have been guided to you. Thanks!!!!! Also I can’t wait for the insider circle to begin, in the mean time I hope you can answer a question for me. I have been working with a herd of 7 horses a pony and my filly for the winter, mostly doing your WHR after watching the DVD and reading blogs and anything else you have written. The work I have done really payed off as the herd was very excepting and our relationship as a whole was very congenial and respectful. I say was because just last week when I arrived at the barn I sensed a huge shift in energy before I had even arrived at the barn . When approaching the farm I always stop along the fence line to observe the dynamics, see where everyone is and what they are doing because usually as soon as they see my car approaching they start to meander to the fence usually in single file behind the lead gelding. This day things were different as I observed them they looked like a different herd all together. The gentleman who owns the farm had made some changes first of all he had moved the large hay feeder to the opposite end of the pasture and secondly he had moved 3 of the 5 miniature ponies in with the existing herd, one tiny mini being a stallion.Wow he was creating a major shift in behavior, challenging and I guess trying to take over the herd . It was funny watching this little guy standing face to face with the current lead gelding and pawing the ground when he only comes up to his knees. He was also chasing the others away from there feed and taking over the territory. My question is do I have to start all over again with these new dynamics or just work with him? He was used to being in a pen of his own with 3 mini mares and a colt the 2 minis that are pregnant stayed back in the old pen. Perhaps the herd is more settled now and they have worked things out but I have felt that there was too much angst to even be in the pasture with them so I just remove my filly and work with her, she is totally unfazed by the commotion. Thanks I need some guidance……… anyone !!!
Namaste Sherry
I was a little confused about “Can I move my horse way from me and not have it come back?”I had a vision of sending my horse away from me, her moving off and standing with her butt towards me, and then her peeking back at me to see what I was doing/wanting.
However, as I understand it now from reading the posts, it is just moving the horse out of my space (backing out?) and not trying to (rudely) push back in.
The last two times I went to get my horse out of the pasture (where the grass is belly deep — a huge incentive for her to STAY in the pasture), I called her and she neighed in return, then galloped up to me:-) Needless to say, I was thrilled. My old horse used to do this, but not her (I’ve had her a year and a half). She always comes to me, but I would have to go into the pasture and get within 20-30 feet of her before she would move her feet towards me. To have her gallop to me from the far end makes my heart sing!
Dear Haddaway,10
It is not important if your horse comes to you when you are sharing space.
Relax more give up your goals.
Stay in the big space. Do some of the things I suggested on the voice recording. Brake up the bickerling. Keep the peace.
Don’t put on a halter untill the horses are happy with the idea.
Holding the bucket that they are eating out of every day and relax.
Carolyn,
Your posts are like my daily devotional reading. This series on rudeness has been so illuminating. It is such a different world and encourages me not to return to treating horses like slaves and being totally self-serving. It effects my work with horses, my students, and my life with people. Becoming aware of crossing lines and understanding when and where to set boundaries is huge. Todays post has cast a light on several situations I am experienceing with my horses. They are all in different places in our journeys together. I am more in their world than I have ever been, but drawing then into my world has been amazing and challenging. Please keep talking us through this. Rathel
dear carolyn,´just to say i am off line for a while. will check thursday though for the inner circle info. i am in middle of moving house, not horse farm!, plus daily visits to doctor and hospital so no internet till mid next week but i am there with you in spirit.
regards daena
This is a great and deep post which I will have to revisit several times.
This quote is staying with me today:
“If your horse shows rudeness you probably are not handling yourself appropriately toward your horse or you are asking him to do something that needs to be put to him in another way, or changed to a different subject to allow the support and connection to return between the two of you.”
Many thanks from the herd and me!
Dear Carolyn
I too teach people that once respect is present in a relationship that it allows for love to flow more freely . If you think of your best friendships the gift is that you can freely express yourself in a balanced way and be authentic. The other person doesn’t necessarily have to agree with you and there opinion is also freely expressed. Our horses are so similar in this aspect and this energy allows for the relationship to change from slave to partner.
Getting these concept across stumps me and shuts me down sometimes. I so appreciate your blog it truely inspires me to keep going.
Nancy Proulx
Carolyn,
Another wonderful post. I especially liked your comment:
When someone is rude, they do not care about the other person’s feelings. Once a person cares about someone there is a natural politeness that follows that also brings about a care-taking attitude.
Toni
Hello Carolyn,
What a super blog today. That we, as equestrians, are guests on a horse’s back really got me thinking more about striving for willingness with our animals, and not demanding they instantly do a certain task. Thankyou for showing me a more joyous, wonderful bond can be achieved with my horse. My buddy, a former western reiner, is phasing from a demanding relationship with humans to a happier connection, and I can see his willingness to do things, from liberty ground work (whr) to trail, is growing. What a wonderful journey we are having.
Best regards,
Barbara and Monie
birroyal@aol.com
Thanks again for a wonderful blog post. I always find them so thought provoking. I continue to Share Territory, Greet, and Lead from Behind. It continues to develop slowly with Snowy, but he is getting much more respectful and also interested in having a connection. I found the post very helpful, especially the check list. The more I do the WHRs, the less spooky Snowy seems because he seems to trust my leadership and feel more confidant if I am present sitting in his arena. It seems to let him relax more. Since his spookiness has been one of the main problems, I really appreciate him feeling more grounded and trustful. I also really appreciate the emphasis on making things fun for the horse, and figuring out where he wants me to lead him. You are so creative in your ideas to make the horse’s life rewarding. I keep trying to think, “What idea would Carolyn come up with?” I will re-read this post a number of times, and that of all the others because I get so many ideas for their reactions, too.
Hey Carolyn, I had to read your post a few times. There are so many pearls, and I kept finding more, the more I read. I think the greatest gift I’ve recieved from the whr’s is, a willing partner. Ok, and the fact that it has made me into an intirely different human. Eclipse, Hawk, Bit and Gunner said to thank you for that one, Carolyn.
Another wonderful post Carolyn! I so look forward to them and appreciate all you are sharing with us.
Beth, thank you for the wonderful podcast! Very exciting to hear one. I liked the material you chose also. Thank you.
I loved the Utube as well. It is so true, when things are fun and off the beaten path, they are more interesting.
Learning the WHR so far has been amazing for my horse and I. When I come to the barn, if he even hears my voice, he is heading for the fence to join me. I can send him away in the arena, which was a huge break through for us…and he will trot around after leaving me in a way to improve his conditioning. He is respectful and enjoying it as much as I am. My instructor suggested lunging him at least once a week on a line, but he has been so wonderful that I haven’t used the line, it has been like there is one there invisibly but so much more enjoyable for both of us.
Today, I shared an apple with him. We can stand next to each other or facing each other and he will patiently wait while I eat a piece and then will wait to see if he can have a piece. He is not pushy. If he stretches his neck to get closer to the apple, I just cluck and point to him and he backs up and waits patiently. I know I could also send him away at trot and I would if he got pushy. Sometimes we even companion walk sharing an apple. The magnetic bond is amazing, and I find myself drawn to him at the barn even more strongly than I was before, so I think the magnetic bond works both ways. I was madly in love with him before, but now it is even more dimensional. We are having so much fun. I love learning what you are teaching and I love sharing it with my horse and learning from him and the herd.
I am not riding now because of a herniated disc, but I know when I am able to that it will be incredible and what I am learning now is priceless. I hate to think it took a herniated disc to lead me to this place, but things do happen in mysterious ways. I feel like I have found a wonderful gift in this place of healing.
Thanks to you and everyone in the blogs. I feel so lucky to have found this place and all of you.
Connie
Well i am having mixed results and I am aware that it is my issue and need a little guidance as I am cloudy on the next step…
I have two mares and their 10 month old fillys. When they arrived, it was a nightmare of a fast trip from Wy to Washington which started out with three mares and three foals of three months, two buckets of water and a bale of grass hay. Now I had paid for each mare and foal to have their own box stall, feed etc. But this cretin removed the seperations and had them all running together in the trailer.
Of course the alpha mare kicked the hell out of the other two mares to make sure she and her foal had all the food since it was all piled in one place. The man stopped twice for a “piss and a coffee” (that is a real quote) and it is unknown if he watered them as he was frightened of the horses. Needless to say he did not stop and unload them as he was supposed to at night.
Since there was little to no food and water, the fighting was intense. When he arrived he refused to let me into the trailer so i could lead them out and remove halters. (The alpha mare, Faylah, was so dehydrated that you could put a fist in her side and it was past the wrist. The other two mares were much worse one, Jessie, was at least 75 pound underweight from the dehydration and the third, Dark Moon Rising/ stable name Luna, was a good 100 to 125 pound dehydrated. One of the reasons i know it was dehydrationwas they all recovered half of the missing weight overnight.)
So, instead of letting me handle them, he basically just opened the ramp and ran them out. Since this man had held me up for more money in the middle of the trip or he would not deliver the horses, I had friends there to help and be witnesses. I have handled range horses all my life and I would have had no problems leading them out into the pasture one by one (with their unhaltered foals) and removing their halters so they could get their land legs, box stalls or not as I’ve been working semi wild stock for 30 years and I am careful and do ok with them in most situations.
Now two of these mares (Luna and Faylah) had a week of handling as yearlings. All three had a week of work before hauling, at a neighboring ranch. as well as bloodwork to get their coggins etc. The woman doing the training used a reed to get them used to being touched, get a rope halter and drag rope on them, load them in and out of trailers, teach them about alflafa cubes in buckets, and that they are to turn towards a human instead of backing up and kicking the whodo out of the human, and even handled their feet a tiny bit.
In the begining here, there was no round pen, and I was able to get a lead rope on (Jessie) as she ate out a basin of grain in my arms, of course she jumped away when i clipped the lead rope on her. After a few minutes of snorty moving around, she came back and i was able to ease the halter off of her. The second mare, Luna, (who is now with a new home as the man does chiropractic on horses as her foal was badly kicked in the head by the alpha mare) about two days later let me get a rope on her, but she was was in so much pain from the tight halter, that she wasn’t ready to have me touch it, just the added weight of the lead rope was cuasing her more pain. I just worked on getting her calm enough to get the rope back off of her and walking away on a postive note, (she sniffed my hand) so i left it at that.
We got the round pen delivered and we had to use the panels to slowly and carefully get her to a place where we could get the too tight, badly rubbing halter off of her. She was pretty scared, and in pain, but we gave her lots of time, appologising as we went, and it was finally off. She was so thrilled to get that damn thing off…
Now all of this was before i got WHR. I had learned several similiar steps cause of my years with the semi wild herds up at Kitty’s and was doing the sharing territory with them, but i have learned lots of details from whr i hadn’t figured out on my own. Both fillies would come up to sniff and eventually we ended up just draping ropes and open halters off of them after they came into the round pen to be scratched etc. (gate left open) I would just sit there in a chair in the round pen and they would come in.
Now i usually walk into the pasture and they will walk up to say hello and i will give them some attention. If they walk away so did I. Sometimes i take a tack box of brushes with me, Sometimes I don’t. The mares will be within ten feet of me, and if I have grain they will come up for munchies.
Now After reading about what is rude and what is not, I realized that they are rude (except for the lead mare) when there is food there. Not too much with the hay, thought the babies would steal mouthfuls off the back of the cart if as I pulled it across the pasture to the round pen. But if i have grain, in the past few weeks i am seeing a lot of josling back and forth amongst themselves to be first.
I was waiting for my chance to do taking territory and yesterday Jessie about backed me into the hot fence in her sneak attack on the feed bucket. I had a cart i was trying to get through the metal gate, holding a bucket, and had the hot fence gate in my hand. (Should have left the grain bucket for later) I saw her coming, but had my hands full…
I immediately started taking territory and waved my arms and yelled backing her off which gave me time to get the gates closed etc. I pulled the cart out into the pasture and ran off the fillies attempts to sneak hay, in fact i ran everyone off and stood guard over first the cart, and then the piles i was making in the middle of the pasture. I watched them all carefully, and when the bold fillies tried to come over, I ran them off.
I started back with the cart, watching them the whole time and would go back and charge them and run them off. I pawed the hay a bit and circled the piles… take the cart back a bit more… run back etc. The mares got it right away, and i actually watched them teach the fillies. It was amazing… Now when i go into the pasture i have respect distances and then the fillies come up for attention and space sharing when i invite them by calling them and using body language.
The mares are standing back the same ten to 20 feet while i put out the feed now that they do when i am just handling the fillies. Much safer, and i like the change. I can see that the horses not only understand what I am saying, but they have more trust in me after i disciplined them this way, its like they are more into me, accepting me more.
What i am confused about a detail about the sharing space. I have this two acre pasture and I can sit all day and only the fillies to want to talk or share time with me.
Before this taking territory step yesterday Jessie would allow me to rub her head if she is eating out of the bucket. If we were in the round pen i could slip a halter on her while she ate, and she was talking to me the whole time about it, very there with me as we worked together. She is not as fast to do it out of the round pen and I have backed off of all this kind of work now that I have gotten the WHR. I want to make sure i really get it for i do much more.
In the pasture I signal clearly that it is ok to come and eat, and Feylah will eat out of the bucket as well as Jessie, but she does not want to be touched and will calmly take a bite of grain and then with her eyes averted, turn her head away. I understand her backing off with me, as I had to use the round pen and then a catch pen to get a rope on the throat latch area of her halter and get the halter off of her at last. She stood for about 8 minutes while i scratched her head. I am not pushing her, the relationship will move forward when she is ready.
Now before I got WHR we used the round pen to get them to let us handle them a bit so they could get trimmed (feet had never been done, wormed etc. All were for health issues.) I did touch and release on Feylah, and for Jessie and the fillies they have halters on while they have grain if we are in the round pen. I only close the gate if we are going to have halters on briefly as I hate them to wear halters full time, to dangerous, and disrespectful to the horse.
Sorry for the long background, but was thinking how can you answer if you don’t know what is going on?
Should I restrict the amount of space i do the sharing space in? Having it in the big pasture with all four horses is allowing the mares to spend time together as opposed to with me. If I should, I have only the portable round pen, so I could sit in there with one horse and read… in such a tiny space, should I start with my chair next to the hay? I do not worry about getting kicked or biten etc, these mares don’t chose to use their feet or teeth on me, but are not interested in spending time with me in the big pasture as they have each other. I feel like it would still be forcing the issue if I used the round pen…
I am still recovering from chemo etc (I’m in remission now) and am getting stronger each day. So i have lots of time. I saw you using an arena in the WHR so am a little confused. Unless I hear otherwise from you, I am going to just continue in the pasture with my chair and a book. It rains here a lot, so its not every day for the book…
Last detail, Feylah is due to foal in the next month of so, no exact date it was a range breeding.
If I don’t hear from you, i will assume its ok to continue in the big pasture.
Whiskers and Whinnies
LJ
Hello,
Very nice podcast, a wonderful voice you have Beth! And also a nice fun YouTube which is delivering the message clearly.
I’m digesting and thinking and searching and figuring out what you are bringing across with regard to the bounderies, Carolyn. And also with regard to being polite and making it fun for the horse at the same time.
When I read the blogs some information goes straight to my heart, some information has to pass my head first. That’s what the digesting is about…
I do so get that it’s essential. This is all about the give and take you do in a relationship.
So I’m now on a daily basis watching horses setting their bounderies and being rude or polite.
And in the meantime also soul-searching when being with my horse, to check my agenda and intentions. I often ask myself: is this what my head wants, or my heart? If the answer is: my head, I let it go, and do something else.
So much to learn and experience!
best wishes!
What an enormously informative post! This alone could be an outline for a book.
Which means I’m going to have to study it well before I can make any comprehensive response, and I have yet to queue up the video!
There is one point on which I’d like clarification. You ask:
“Can I move my horse way from me and not have it come back?”
Carolyn, how does that look, exactly? If the horse goes away and does not return, but keeps looking at you, is that sufficient?
My horse will stay behind an imaginary point, or go as long as I command him with gesture, but he doesn’t lose interest in me. I’ve made him stay behind that imaginary line for several minutes and he will do that.
In general, I have been amazed at results in the past few days with Capricho. First, he really got the carrot game fast. What I do is put two pans of carrots at either end of his pen, on the outside, and ask him for various things in walking back and forth to either one – maybe to just stop midway and back up, maybe to trot with me, maybe to make a big loop and hop over a log, all companion walking at a polite distance.
I had a situation too where my horse communicated with me loud and clear yesterday. I had been going out every day around three to share territory. Yesterday for the first time he would not face me and went to a far corner. I had just opened my book and begun to puzzle about it when he came up to me at a fast gallop, did a sliding stop maybe ten feet away, then walked up to say hello. I petted his nose, then he wheeled around, galloped to the limit of the pen, and galloped up to me again.
I said OK, I get it, you want to play. So I let him out into the large common area where he galloped around and played so happily.
After studying your post I may have more questions, but I wanted to check in and get on the subscription list for emails.
Thanks Carolyn! You are so generous to share with us in this forum.
Loved the reading and nature sounds, Beth! Thank you!
There were lots of gems in this post for me and I put them in an order for me to remember in applying them. I’ve also re-worded them for myself slightly, Carolyn, and would love to know if I understood your words correctly:
1. Be with my horse with the mindset of a guest rather than as his time and energy manipulator for whom he should be grateful and with whom he should want to partner. (emphasis on the shoulds)
2. Find out what’s important to him so I can lead him there.
3. Before trying to train or ride him, make sure:
a. I can move him away from me and not have him come back;
b. When we are close he is soft and gentle and gives me the room I need;
c. He will move on when I walk toward my horse and ask him to move on;
d. I can stop him from coming all the way up when he walks toward me.
4. Work with him in ways that promote his willingness, rather than correct behaviors I’m getting instead of his willingness.
Thank you!
Michelle
Dear Chirstian,
Call me At my usual number (if you don’t know it, email us) tonight or tomorrow morning between 8 and 9. No charge
I want to explain this to you and I can not though the blog so a conversation will work.
When a horse is in your territory he is the quest in your world you are not a guest in his. The minuet you ask you horse to perform self serving you then become the guest. When he will not move away from your request this is considered rude. If horses can not ask for these responses from another horses they will be bullies by a bullie and then you could be unified when they are traveling. If a horse does not respond to moving away when asked to it can create pushyness in a horse.
A horse is not being rude if you call him and he does not come or perfrom or follow your lead. He is rude when he will not leave your personal space.
These lessons are to develop a deeper friendship from your horse having more regard for you.
If you do not like this part of the program, drop it. I am not hear to lead you down some path you do not want to go.
Just know that horses really resonate to these exercises. Not at the beginning but what happens is golden.
Again please call.
I do not have to chect the list if will he come when he is called when I choose to work on this list- he is in my lap and I can not get him to move away. Once these are on the hrose when he is in my lap I have a working team in trust and harmony. There is two things you need to work on one you have and these you may not. If you have it you do not drill it.
wonderful post as always. this blog has been so helpful to me in everyday interactions with each of my horses. It is so interesting and rewarding to get that ‘a ha’ moment with a horse. When you feel the connection, it is simply magical.
Tahintate can be very dog like too (or a contented cow if you like!) when he just wants to ‘be’ (in the moment) with me. Even the softest reminder about boundaries can sometimes embarrass him. He is very keen to please and to demonstrate that he can be polite. At times even just my non verbal intention that he not, say nibble on my coat or beg, is enough for him to pull back and yawn.
Last weekend my mare Kate was not in the mood for a group trail ride. As much as I wanted to honor her request, I needed to chaperone the ride. Not finding anything physically wrong, I rode her to my regret. She was not happy and the ride was very stressful for us both. this past weekend we attempted to go out again on the trails. She was hesitant to agree. I then took the time to FULLY connect with her. I went over her body, feet and tack with a fine tooth comb…massaging a sore spot, removing some tiny tiny gravel in her hooves and a knot on the back of her bareback pad. the ride was wonderful and we had a blast. I will work harder to take the time needed to connect and listen to my horse. nothing else really matters.
Laurinda
Dear Carolyn,
as always your writing is fresh and surprising. I’ve always understood what you point out about the leader being a guest, and riding happening upon invitation. What I am surprised about is that your checklist from the Waterhole Rituals is all about making the horse leave you. I expected there to be more of a balance between asking/allowing the horse to come (draw) and getting them to leave you (send). Why is it that, on your checklist, you only test that the horse will leave you, not that they will come when asked? How can you know that you are, indeed, an invited guest if you only test whether the horse will leave you? Is it that, with this checklist, the horse’s desire to come and be with you is already implied as a given?
Yours,
Christian
Oh what a great blog today! First I truly enjoyed the reading by Beth, great job!!!!!!!!! The soothing background noises were nice too. What fun to watch the Piano Stairs youtube. It lifted spirits and made exercise fun and playful.
As always, your writings hit home with me.
““I must find out where my people want to go so I can lead them there.” This is how we want to approach our horses when we ask the horse to be in service and go somewhere we would like him to go.”
This really helps me to think more creatively with my 4 yr old Micah who does not like to leave the comfort of his one and only buddy, Moon. I have acerage which is hilly and forested. I separate the boys during the day but they are still just across the fence from each other. But in order for Micah to eat his hay he does have to make the decision to leave the site of Moon, which he is getting more and more comfortable doing.
When I get home in the evening, I then take Micah for walks on his side of the fence. We go up and down hills (often out of the site of Moon), go over logs, step up on tree stumps, circle around trees and he receives treats for his efforts and games. He is getting more relaxed about doing this and loves figuring out what to do for a carrot slice. I am trying to venture a little further each time. He still has his mind on Moon at a moments notice though and when he does I try to distract him with some little task to do. These are fun tasks. I’m not running him or working him into a sweat of any kind.
We will eventually make our way back toward Moon who is usually quite concerned about where we are going. He will call to Micah and at times run the fence. Carolyn, does my approach seem reasonable to you? There really is a separation anxiety, mostly with Micah. I can ride Moon out and he doesn’t show concern about Micah. But Micah gets very concerned when I take him away from Moon. I obviously want to be safe to ride Micah away, but we are not quite there this spring. Last year as a 3 yr old, I actually had a number of succesful rides on Micah leaving Moon. But the long winter seemed to bond him to the hip and now he doesn’t want to do it. I’d appreciate any response from you.
All the best!
Regina
Hi Carolyn
I hope I’m beginning to see a glimmer of the deep cross-species relationship you mention. I find our interest and devotion to each other varies day to day, most markedly in relation to the time I can spend following the rituals.
I grew up on a fairly isolated farm and hung out with and trained sheepdogs a lot of the time. I have been afraid to say it in case I’m condemned for making inappropriate comparisons between species, but… my horse is responding more like a dog than I would have ever thought possible!!
When he had a rude phase I would stop him on his approach and not allow him closer until he didn’t have a surly expression. Rather than lose interest he would wait and then come on when invited. I’ve found its possible to stop him, call him on a little, stop him again and so on. I don’t practice it for amusement, but I have discovered it’s possible and am astonished. Maybe it’s completely everyday to others and I just never tried it before!
Even the way he behaves when stopped for a rude approach is very dog like, he breaks eye contact and turns his head away, makes a more neutral expression, and then when invited on looks pleased.
If this makes me sound extremely controlling I should also say I am working on my politeness and respect and on shaping activities around what he’s expressing an interest and motivation for.
Thanks again for another post to help our development.
Kirsty
wuaha , what a great video! i used to fundraise there in that exact spot!!
it is so important for us to realize how to create a response without a demand and then do it
Lots of greetings from St. Vincent/ Stina