Morning Star and Leading from Behind – First Meeting.
Jun 16th, 2009 by Carolyn Resnick Method
I want people to see themselves as leaders, when this happens a student becomes empowered. I see my role as leading leaders. My first focus is to lead the person to use their ingenuity with the Waterhole Rituals. The Waterhole Ritual takes ingenuity for them to work. Discovering the leader within is as rewarding to the people in the course as it is for me. When people achieve a connection and working bond with their horse, it is as life enhancing for the horse as it is for the human. The student needs to apply the program as it suits them by choosing the ritual that will develop a stronger connection and dance with their horse. They discover how to communicate with their horse through a program that they develop for themselves. My part is to inspire and share a method that is a step by step process, that requires a venue where fences do not play a part in being able to help control the horse. This helps to guide the person to make the right choice in how to respond to their horse. I give a person a philosophy that will also empower their choice to guide them and give them rules to follow that horses appreciate and understand. This paves the way to a magical connection with their horse.
At first, it is hard on my students to get lost in the journey. It takes them and me about two weeks to successfully get onto the same page together with a horse in Sharing Territory. I find that this is the most important tool I have as a teacher to start creating a bond with the horse like horses have with each other, and to guide the students to the leader within. I also need this bonding time to get to know the class and to hook up everyone with their horse, so the other rituals do not get perceived as pointless and predator like. I want the bond to be as deep as the bond that horses share with one another. Training a horse does not build loyalty and magic or the dance, however focusing on the connection does.
I have a new student and colt in training. Amanda Myers and Lucero, who I call Morning Star because that is the English translation of his name. I took Morning Star in for training using the Waterhole Rituals to develop a working bond so I could share my experiences with the Insider Circle Coaching Club. I needed a horse to help me guide the class. By working with a new horse, it opens my memory to the finer details in how to guide my students. Morning Star is a yearling colt already weaned, and in his case, this is a good thing both for his mother and for him. Morning Star’s mother was very lenient in how she was raising him. This permissive behavior was causing Morning Star to push his mom about; way too much. He was developing into a bit of a bully with her and he did not even know that he was turning into an uncaring colt with little feeling for others. This caused Morning Star to be very forward thinking. Morning Star was beginning to believe that he could control every thing in life. He was growing way too big with his ego. He had never considered his mothers feelings. He had developed an attitude that life needed to listen to him.
He is a happy, pleasant natured colt but not well enough developed to be in charge of the world, especially when he thinks that his feelings should come first with no consideration for others. This warped sense of how life needed to fit in with him was not showing up as a bad thing because he likes people and had a likable personality. But the truth of it was that just beneath the surface when he needed to be respectful for others, there was no consideration. As a cute, sweet colt he was causing people to caterer to his needs, growing his inability to have any feelings for horses or humans other his own. This was the attitude of Morning Star had when he arrived at my ranch Dances with Horses. He took the move well and settled right in.
There was no way I could sit in a chair Sharing Space with him because his is a very gregarious colt and wanted to be right up there with me controlling the action. He wanted to be in my lap and treat me like he did his mom, which was rough. He had no respect for the reed. I had to take off my jacket and shake it like you would a rug to get the dirt out of it. This worked. But in a minute, he returned and grabbed the jacket in his mouth. He did not try to take it from me but held onto it. I took my two fingers, put them into the side of his mouth, and pried his mouth open. He let go and I then said “good boy” and gave him a leaf. Along the paddocks, we have fruitless mulberry trees and the horses love these leaves. It is a great tool for me and a treat for the horses. Soon Morning Star learned that he would be moved away from me if he did not show some respect for my space and that to get a leaf he could not have the jacket in his mouth, so he started to leave it alone more than hold onto it. When he forgot I would drive him away by shaking the jacket aggressively at him, moving into his space to help him to connect with his herding instinct. I wanted to film all of this for you but when we went out the next day with the camera he had already learned not to bite or crowd, so then we made the video for the Inner Circle Group to show how to start Sharing Space with a horse and colt.
Big Tip: On the subject of Leading from Behind do not go behind the horse to drive him forward if he is standing still but rather approach the horse from the side of his head, belly, or hip. The object is to turn your horse around and get him to walk way from you, this way putting the horse into a submissive position and you into a dominant position behind him. What happens to people who try to approach the horse directly from behind is that the horse will try to face them. Once the horse is walking you can be in any position from just behind the cinch line or at his hip or as much as 12 feet behind him or directly behind at a safe distance. As long as you influence your horse to move forward from a driving request rather than Companion Walking or following you are Leading from Behind.
Another way to start Leading from Behind is to walk after your horse when his is walking on this own and when he stops ask him to go forward in a very gentle but effective way and just follow until he thinks of stopping and urge him on again. You want him to go very slowly at first. You want the horse to enjoy the process.
I’m loving this journey through the Waterhole Rituals with my students because I am learning so much too. Thank you.
Carolyn
No related posts.
Just now found my way to this entry from the link on the newest (Beyond the Whisper Feb 16, 2010) post. Do not know if you are still answering questions here, but if so, I have a fundamental one. My herd of 14 lives in a 40 acre pasture most of the time. When I walk into the field when they are resting or grazing, several of the more dominent horses come to greet me and hang out in my space. The less dominent horses keep away or are driven away by the more dominent ones. If I want to play with a less dominent horse, I need to drive the others away, halter that horse and remove him or her from the field. If we stay with the herd, sooner or later a more dominent horse will push the chosen one away from me unless I am perpetually vigilant. Vigilance is hard (impossible, really) for me to maintain among the herd when I am focusing on the horse I am playing with. Does this mean I should only play with (let them approach me, get comfortable with me, practice driving them from behind) the more dominent horses when I go into the pasture? What about the others? Most of the horses I play with are used to ground driving and some let me do it at liberty. That exercise, however, sounds more controlled and precise than what you are describing, because if the horse leaves me mentally (i.e., if I lose control of pace or direction), I go back on line right away to re-establish it. Your “driving from behind” sounds very different in that (from the informal videos I’ve seen) the horse gets to select direction and pace. Am I making a correct deduction? Please provide some guidance, Carolyn or anyone knowledgable about the Waterhole Ritual program. I am getting so into all this that as soon as I can find the cash, I will buy the videos. But it is getting tougher all the time.
Hi Carolyn & all,
I have been reading the blogs for a while & am moved to respond to this one.
The story of young Morning Star rang so true for me… he sounds so much like my boy Hero, a Gypsy Cob x Welsh D gelding. He is my first horse ever!
Hero came to me in August 2008, on his actual 1st birthday. He is kind, curious, brave, funny, smart & rather “full of himself”.
We had quite a good bond right from the start, but like Morning Star, we had some ‘respect’ issues. He would push/bump into me & sometimes even give me a nip! He particularly disliked circle work.
My riding teacher showed me to ‘chase’ him around the arena, to the point of submission, make him stop, face me & drop his head. I had misgivings about this, as it seemed to me he was ‘giving up’ only because he was tired.
I came to the Waterhole Rituals via the AND site & have been practising them for a few months now. I have not brought Hero to the arena during this time & have stopped any ‘work’ involving tack of any kind.
I go into the ‘big paddock’ where we are with the rest of the herd (2 other geldings & a lead mare).
Our interactions have been a wonder & a joy!
Hero comes flying when he realises I am there & will follow me to see what interesting thing I will do next. He sometimes helps me pull weeds, or will fetch a bucket for me if I ask him.
When we first started Companion Walking, then trotting & jumping over logs etc, he would get a bit too excited & I got a few nips!!!!!
If this happened I would ‘flatten my ears’ shake my stick at him & leave him alone… Game Over! The nipping has stopped now, he has learned that he can touch me softly with his lips only & I will allow this.
He will now Trot Away… we are still working on the Come Up, LOL!!!!!
I can lead from behind, then ask him to turn & face me by ‘dropping’ myself. He can also yield his behind for me from a distance if I ask him clearly.
I use affection & voice rewards mostly, as he is very responsive to this… he just loves to hear ‘you are the BEST pony, what a CLEVER horse!’
Some people question what I’m doing with Hero, saying ‘Oh, you’re only playing, you need to do some real work.’
I know better! This IS the ‘real work’. And the other horses are starting to join in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you Carolyn, for teaching a method where a human & horse, who are both ‘beginners’ can learn together.
Cheers & horsey blessings,
Moyna & Hero
Sorry, this is just the way we, the students at my university, are expected to participate. I meant it as a question.
Dear jo and every one in the Inner Circle Club,
Please put your questions in the Inner Circle question page. It is less confusing to me and to the regular bloggers.
Thank
Hi Carolyn, although we seemed to have a bit of a glitch last week we are back on track. Del is back to his old self and more so it seems I am noticing some subtle but positive changes and yesterday we had a fantastic session with leading from behind turning naturally into companion walking with an amazing connection I have not experienced before. However, this evening I wanted to lead him from behind to exercise him as usual. It started ok and he was much livelier than he has been, no longer lame. He ran off playfully a couple of times which was fine but then whatever I tried to do he just kept turning towards me even using the reed and trying to send him from further back. It felt like one of those paintings whose eyes follow you around the room. i just couldn’t get him to do anything but either turn towards me or back up and then face me whenever I tried to move further back. Ears were forward and nothing aggressive. I would add that in spite of our success yesterday I was very relaxed and chilled about it so wasn’t competing with myself to do as well as last night. I have learnt not to be too predictable with him and have to admit that it sometimes seems he does this to me too. He has been loving the praise and I am pretty sure his running off was joi de vivre I think he wanted to play. Having watched the videos I also think the day I thought he was snaking was play, the start of the dance. This play drive is also something new with him as he has never had a high play drive since I had him eight months ago even with other horses so it is great to see.
Great words of wisdom. I find myself hypothisising about the nature and behaviour of horses every single day (!!) – what is a product of domesticity, how can i learn from the ferral horse etc etc, but the fact is, when it comes to the ‘doing’ i’m all hypothisised out!! I sometimes miss the moment – I talk like an expert, but when i’m face to face with my horse, none of that matters in that moment and i realise how much i have to learn to not think about learning so much and just be and just do…just experience my horse!
Dear Brenda,
This is a very good question and ever I would like to write on it and I might in the future but I must be careful to keep on the subjsect of experiance and leading the class. In this phase of the program I want to keep everyone on my blog in the student mind set of asking question rather than answering questions. Having an cup empty is hard for student to do but most important. This way one learns easily to reach beyond what he or she knows from experianceing each new moment.
The child mind needs more time learning through experiance. By not having oppinions is key to achieving an empty cup.
I want everyone to stay on the subject of their own personal experiance with your horse and the Waterhole Rituals.
Brenda’s comment makes me think … and it’s hard to put my thoughts in plain English …
Horses teach us so much! Maybe they also want to teach us that relationship without basic rules (trust and respect) doesn’t really work. Those pushy foals and horses challenge us and our qualities in relating … with horses and humans.
Another approach might be – at least in German culture – that horses mirror our “disconnected” emotional state in which we lack empathy and a healthy balance and feeling for personal space.
Carolyn, thanks for having found you finally
It’s so interesting that many people here are talking about foals that don’t learn any rules from their mother. Do you guys have any idea why this may be? I get the idea that, because they are raised in captivity, they don’t face as many challenges. So that they don’t require proper fitting in with the herd any more. What do you think? It would certainly mean that keeping the horses the way we do has a profound impact on how they relate to each other.
Hi Carolyn,
Morning Star seems to have the EXACT personality as my new boy Banner. By explaining his background, his mannerisms, and what you’re doing to change them, I’m learning volumes about my own horse. How lucky am I that you’re facing the same issues I am, and at the same time! I felt like I was right in the arena with you after watching your video. I have the added challenge that Banner is a big, strong seven year old and has had the misfortune of spending several weeks at the hands of an abusive “trainer”, but his personality is identical to Morning Star’s.
I’ve had the luxury of spending lots of time sharing territory with Banner which has quickly cemented our friendship, but it’s obvious that Banner’s never once been taught manners by other humans or other horses. At first his silly antics were cute, but I realize that I have to demand my personal space when I’m with him, or he’s going to accidentally hurt me. He tries to prop his head on top of mine while I’m sitting with him or use me as his scratching post, nearly knocking me off my feet at one point. While I’ve been busy shooing him away when he gets too demanding, his pushy behavior is ever-present–even with my other horses. I know I need to address this immediately because he’s never been taught to stand properly for a farrier–he kicks and carries on like a spoiled brat, and he was just terrible for the past two vets who have looked at him. He currently won’t allow anyone to look in his mouth, which means I’m going to have a terrible time trying to worm him in a few weeks. Any and all tips you have for curbing his spoiled behavior will be greatly appreciated, and I very much look forward to watching future videos of your interactions with your new headstrong boy.
Thank you sooooo much for sharing all of your valuable insights with all of us! –Carol
With the help of Carolyn’s post about leading from behind, I felt a little better about going out and giving it a try. I’d been driving from zone 5 in Parelliland, which is a whole different deal. Tonight I went out and found Eclipse and Lou hovering over my chair. I sat down and we shared territory. Hawk walked up and decided to try to push himself into my bubble. I gave him a good swish and he backed up. Eclipse had a horse fly attacking her, and as I looked towards her, Hawk reached out and bit my reed in two. He was pretty pleased with himself. I did feel bad for him. I had been playing with him every day, and since starting the water hole rituals, he hasn’t seen a carrot stick in three weeks. He has been begging me to play with him, and except for some scratches and rubs, I’ve been focused on Eclipse. I caved. How often does a horse invite you to play? Hawk does every day, and every day I’ve been saying, “no”. I tried leading from behind. He was wonderful. I walked over towards Eclipse and did it with her. She did great. Then Hawk, then Eclipse. When I went over to Hawk to say goodnight, he had the softest look in his eyes. He just licked and chewed and licked and chewed. Eclipse doesn’t look at me, she sees me, now. She really gazes into my eyes. I was so scared I’d fall into a black hole with trying to learn this. It’s so easy to do when all you have is a set of dvd’s, and no support. Thanks Carolyn, you are a very good teacher.
Dear Michelle,
You could take a private on the phone with me and I could give you the expercises to you in that way. In the ruture I will have a book on them.
It is your job to keep people safe if they won’t.
Carolyn, I so look forward to Tuesday & Thrusday’s because it seems that your topic is always is always what I am working on at that time, it is like I have come home. There are days when my older gelding Instant ,will call and meet me at the gate but he seems to enjoy for me to also go to him and I lead from behind so I take him to water first then to the gate, this happens with the young one Rico freely following along my other side, I fell like we have quite a little family . I have 2 questions, Rico is mostly respectfull of my space my problem is that when other people come up to talk to us he is very much in their space, is it my responsibility to move him back, or theirs, they ususallly will not do so, thinking he so sweet and friendy. My second question is of the topic a bit, I listen to you teleseminar on Sunday, which was inspiring, you mentioned at one point of an Unberstreicken exersise to unblock energy, is it possible to explain this exersise,since I am beginning to do energy work on the boys it would of great help.
Michelle
Dear Marja,
The video is part of the Inner Circle Club. You can join the next one. I think these is still room. You can check with with Mark by emailing me at info@carolynresnick.com
Dear Leanna,
I have no tips other than what your alread know. I do not use those kind of vaccines. I would suggest that you distarct her with a bucket of grain. Feed her with you hording the bucket with a pare of plastic gloves and play with her nose while she is eating the grain.
When she sees this as a routine. Take the Vaccine and rape it up in a other plastic glove so she can not smell it and be quick and get the job done. Fist you have got to each her to allow you to be inside her nose with out the Vacinne first.
If you keep up with the Waterhole Rituals and are able to get all the quailties on conntect when you ask for them and you play with their head alot it should not be hard to do to give them the vaccine. Also the unberstreicken exercises will really help as well.
I loved this post. It is really helpfuly to have so much detail regarding a horse’s true character, personality and way of interaction. Different personalities CERTAINLY require different approaches… all great to TRY OUT and see what happens!
Regarding leading from behind, I still struggle with this with my mare. When I lead from behind, she gets very foul about it… pins her ears and makes faces about the whole thing. She will try to turn around to face me and if I correct her back towards ‘forward’ she’ll either make more faces, or trot off. Sadly, her pen is very small so when I calmly walk behind her until she comes back to a walk, its usually because she’s gone full circle and is FACING ME again. If I do this in the arena, it turns in to lunging…. she circles around me or runs off.
She’s so great with all the other rituals, even companion walking… but this is one area I really struggle. Line reining with her has helped a bit, but was very difficult for her to learn as she was uncomfortable with the ‘driving’ position (anything further back than the girth).
Any suggestions how to develop her comfort/ confidence/ pleasure with this ritual?
Hi Carolyn!
Very interesting post! I thought it was very interesting about the colt’s behavior development with his mother.
Thanks for posting the tips about leading from behind! I have been using all those different positions when I am leading my horse from behind with great results. I was really happy to find that I have been doing it the right way.
Thanks,
Nicole
Carolyn,
Your Video with Morning Star was very helpful yesterday as are your descriptions of working with him today. Our 2 year old filly True had a mother with only one rule – don’t bite my udder. There were no other rules that we could ever observe. We didn’t have True in with any other horses until she was weaned. She was quite a handful to the other horses as well. Please don’t hurt me I am a baby as I see if I can kick you. Between watching your rituals video reading your blogs and teleconferences added to the observations of how the other horses creatively find ways to teach True manners we are making good ground. True is beginning to become softer and more respectful. We especially liked you method of teaching the horse to respect the reed and move away. Last night I put down her toy (rolling toy with carrot and cookies also filled with tennis balls and old bute containers to make it take longer to empty) and asked her to walk away from it with me as you had with the food enticement and this is the 3rd time and she gracefully accepted leaving her beloved toy and walked to the end of the pen for a snack and scratch without even a thought of staying. It was perfect harmony and she has not been easy. She didbn’t go to it until I left the pen and said ok. I am so pleased with some of the tools and thinking projects you are providing us and reading about all different experences of the group. Our other recent break thru Using fly spray with the approach and retreat has worked very well as she chooses when and she has given full consent and stood rock still with ears forward. Especially at the turnout gate in the morning to Join her mentor for breakfast. I have not been sucessful at giving her vaccine up her nose or any vaccine easily yet. She would touch the vaccine with her nose but didn’t want it put up there. Thoughts?
Dear Carolyn,
I would love to see the video ‘how to start Sharing Space with a horse and colt’ you mention in your post. Is it possible to make it available to non Inner Circle members too (without having to enter a password)? Thank you.
Thanks Carolyn. I needed a little more information on leading from behind, and this helped a lot. I think your journey with Morning Star will help me with my colt, Hawk too. They sound like two peas in a pod! I really love Hawk, and looking forward to bringing him over from “the dark side.”
My favorite part? You are working with a horse to remember the finer details to help us with our journey. It is pretty easy to forget what it is like to be at the beginning. Thank you!
Dear Carolyn,
I am learning so much and like you said, the time spent with my horses in sharing territory has taught me ways of interacting with them and more about their personality. I had mentioned to you that my horses’ primary mode of connecting with me was me scratching/grooming them and I got in the habit of letting them tell me where they wanted to be scratched because my mare was often touchy and I could get frustrated trying to figure out what she wanted. So when I’ve been sitting with them they have asked for this ritual with me. At first I was just pushing them gently away if they asked for this because I thought it wasn’t “sharing territory” but they kept asking so I asked you about it and you said it is all about the connection so if they approach me I could scratch them at times if I focused on the connection, and also asking them to maneuver around me rather than me being the passive one with them telling me where they wanted to be scratched. And you mentioned about how the bond is set in stillness so to make sure to include that time as well. So since then I’ve been doing that and it has been amazing. I have already gotten my horses to maneuver around me now when I ask and when my mare gets an idea of wanting me to scratch her in a certain place and is being bossy about it, I just ask her to move around me and switch sides so I’m still leading in a gentle way doing something she enjoys. This has resulted in her sharing territory with me in a wonderful relaxed way which she hadn’t done before. And then yesterday in her companion walking with me ! Hurray! Thank you for your teachings and for opening my heart to the possibilities of this form of communication!
I have a question – when leading from behind – once the horse does move forward well, how does one end the “asking” when the horse has succeeded and you’ve decided to stop moving them? Do you lower your energy and wait until the horse stops? and prains and go up and say hello from the front? Do you say Whoa? and praise, or do you move off in another direction??
Carolyn – Very interesting to learn about a colt with a mother who was too lenient. I’m really looking forward to more insights and stories as you progress with Morning Star.