Mares, Geldings and Stallions
Mar 19th, 2009 by Carolyn Resnick Method
Today I would like to talk to you a little about mares, geldings and stallions and how they respond differently when communicating with us.
Mares can be moody. In these periods I find that if I take the time to connect with them slowly in the beginning before riding or training on the days they are moody, they will come around and forget their sensitivity and work with me as consistently as they would on any other day. If I cannot turn them around on the days they are moody, then I give them the time off they need. Mares can be very fussy about trust issues regarding strangers and even with other horses. In my experience, mares will try harder than stallions and geldings to please you and when they don’t please you, they get nervous and defensive. I think mares are more focused on reading the intentions of people than geldings and stallions. Mares can have strong opinions on what is right and what is wrong in regards to human behavior. Mares get along with other mares better than they do with geldings. I have noticed all horses may prefer one sex or color of horses to another. Some horses will prefer women to men or men to women.
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Carloyn, is the Waterhole Rituals dvd viewable in Australia? If there is a specific zone on it then maybe not, but if it is a general zone dvd then I might be able to…. I will keep my fingers crossed (Maestro will keep his hooves crossed!!! LOL)
Cheers
Ally
Queensland Australia
Tine,
Something I neglected to mention in my other post about FT, is that a thorough understanding of equine ethology is required when progressing through the FT program…. So you not only DO the exercises but you understand WHY you are doing them and therefore what effect you are having on your horse.. and YOU (I have become SO much more patient with people since I have been working at this level with my horses!!!)… A primary concept is one of Peer Groups within a herd and understanding the differing levels of relationships that horses have… and then we based the whole structure of the training onto the extra special bond that a horse will create with only one other horse within the herd… sort of a herd within a herd… and your entire relationship is based on that foundation. So I have read alot of different ethological works and theses such as the White Horse Project from New Zealand by Andy Beck, and “The Domestic horse” by Sue McDonnell… If you can get your hands on the “Cloud” series of dvds about the wild horses in the USA that is sensational as well to get a good understanding of what these magnificent animals are capable of.
I cant wait for payday when I can run amok on the products page on this site!!!!
cheers
Ally
Hi Carolyn
Regarding your response to Lorraine, it is amazing how vastly different a horse can be with different people! A former friend of mine (we are no longer friends because of the way she treats her horses, interestingly) has a beautiful QH mare who she has always described as a “nasty bitch” of a horse. I always felt sorry for Reba, (the mare), as she was also called “ugly”… how can anyone think that way about their horse??? So what this woman gave out to her horse, she got right back… whereas I always thought Reba was a lovely girl, a soft eye, and very misunderstood, so I always treated her extra special… so with me she was always soft and gentle, which did nothing to improve my friendship with her owner….
At one point Debbie was thinking of selling her, and I offered to buy her (I could have learnt HEAPS from this horse!!!) but Debbie told me NO she was “way too much horse for me”… Granted, Reba is indeed a “schoolmaster” but I wondered at the time if she just didnt want to be “shown up” at some point in the future by her “nasty bitchy ugly” horse who finally had someone who respected her….
cheers
Ally
Hi Tine
Im still familiarising myself with the waterhole rituals so can only answer half of your question. My TB Maestro was abused beyond belief and almost starved to death, so by the time I took him on he was very very angry and very very violent. I just let him “be” for a couple of years to just be a horse, partly based on that was what I wanted him to do and partly because I was terrified of him and didnt know WHAT to do with him, I just knew that underneath that reprobate exterior was a proud animal that wasnt happy…
I was using very watered-down Parelli methods on him for a while, generally without the carrot stick, but he would get very left brained and just shut down, and of course that was just pointless. A “traditionally” educated horse friend of mine put him on a longe line once and told me how awesome he was, how beautifully he moved, bla bla bla, but all I could see was a robot without any emotion, and that pretty much broke my heart. My turning point came when he was being really nasty getting out of the float one time, and I was being told my someone standing behind me to smack him on the butt every time he pushed back, which I very stupidly did.. and this pushed him over the edge. He almost killed himself that night because of what I had done, and I promised him I would find him a way out of his hell. It took me a long time to forgive myself for that… Meastro forgave me alot faster than I did….
Someone suggested friendship Training almost as a joke to me… it was seen as “fluffy” by the “regular” people – you know how it is… but it really opened him up. The program asks for 30 days of conditioning first, feeding him in the same place at the same time, to establish an environment of trust, as horses are creatures of habit… then the exercises start. I had to email a daily report back and pretty much every single day I was in tears reporting how this horse just started peeling back his nightmare like an onion… each day deeper and deeper until I started to see glilmpses of a magnificent creature underneath…. The key I think was no ropes, no halters, he could run away if he wanted to (and trust me, in the beginning, he DID!) but I would always wait for him to come back to me, and sometimes we were out in that paddock for a mighty long time!!!!!! LOL Its REAL hard to see a dark bay horse in the dark!!!!!!
I have completed part of the FT program, but have backed away from it because of a personal difference in morality with the person who created it, issues that run deeper than the training itself. Whilst I regret the parting of ways because of what Maestro may have missed out on, I am confident that I have opened my own self up to how things SHOULD be done, and that is why I was so interested in this site… I am sure once I have looked into things a bit more I will find many similarities…
These days my round yard is used as a hospital yard and somewhere for my barefoot trimmer to feel safe when he does their feet (if I cant do them myself for some reason), but that is for his benefit only as my horses are quite capable of standing in the middle of 7 acres with no restraint, picking up their feet on cue and behaving themelves beautifully. I also have a young colt who is so far removed from “normal” stallion behaviour in his attitudes and manners, because of my initial interactions with him…..
These days I come home to find my beautiful boys waiting at the gate with a kiss for me, (the mares are off eating elsewhere! LOL) and trust me – you havent been kissed til you’ve been kissed by your horse!!!!!!
cheers
Ally
Hi Lorriane,
I agree with you. It is a good idea to see each horse as an individual.
It is my practice in how I relate with horses.
The information I offer I though would be helpful to some people and I have been asked this question my many. I had to think had in trying to give qualities of conduct to mares, geldings and stallions. I do believe there is a diffrence but I do not see any horse as lazy. What a horse is in one persons hands it is not in anothers. It is very hard to speek in generalities and it seems to have caused some static. What I am wanting to accomplish though this article is to consider horses feelings and by working with their feeling and personalities we can bring out the best connection possible.
Thank you for sharing your insite,
Carolyn
Hi Dave,
I would like you to look though my blog I have writen several exercises on these issues.
In short the way to get a horse comfortable leaveing the company of another bud is to take your horse that is bonded to his antoher horse out of the field and feed him in a spot and then let him graze and they put him up. Do this untill he gets into a habit and begins to relax.
Hope this is of help,
Carolyn
Hi Ally,
I took a look at the website you mentioned in your post, http://www.thenaturalhorse.org, and I wonder what are the differences if any between the Friendship Training method and Carolyns Waterhole Rituals approach? It seems that a relationship based on trust and mutual respect is the basis of both. I look forward to hearing about your experience. Thank you all for sharing on this blog.
Tine
I enjoyed the article and the coments from others. I have had geldings for the last 29 years. One was a registered quarterhorse who recently died at age 38 and the other a morgan who is now 35. They were together for 24 years and were extremely bonded to one another. When foolish died stoney was enduring severe anxiety and bonded even more with me. I’d go out 3 or 4 time at night to calm him and just be with him. I replaced foolish with another similar gelding 20 years old and they hooked up immediately. I now seem to have a problem with stoney balking unless the new one, dusty, is right with him. Dusty is quite dominate and pushy accept after you grab his halter then he is calm and obedient and, then stoney is willing to do whatever I need. I am having difficulty getting stoney out alone to work with and even if I manage to get him out by himself, he is constantly paying more attention to where dusty is than me. The third horse is also a gelding 11yrs, arab and is no problem by himself although all three follow me out in the coral, usually for carrots or busy hay. I think if I could get stoney bonded more with me like it used to be, the problem would go away. He handles well under saddle but occasionally balks when he wants to be close to dusty and when dusty goes back into the paddoc he calls out for him and is difficult to handle. Any suggestions? I am still working on separating stoney so I can try some of the watering hole techniques, at present it is not working very well. Stoney is 16 hands and I usually cannot win with a tug of war so I end up getting dusty and then he follows like a puppy. I saw one video of a girl working with several horses at the same time somewhere in costa rico or somewhere, she seemed to to have a handle on all of them.
Hello Everyone…….I’m new to the site, but may be able to offer some insight on the experience I am having with my stallion. I imported him when he was 7 months old from the Netherlands. I previously owned geldings and mares so this is a new experience for me. He is half friesian and half dutch, registered as KWPN and is a black and white pinto….my “DREAM” horse… I have always treated him just like I would ANY horse……..with love and respect……..from a little colt I would sit in his stall at his dinner time and he would eat his hay from my lap……….we still do this even though he will be 3 next week and now a magnificent 16.2 hands! He still reverts back to the little colt and cuddles me and lets me rub his ears and face with his eyes half closed in contentment……I would not suggest everyone do this as this was a bond that was built from the day I purchased him… On the other hand………..because I “loved” him
so much we went through respect issues……….he would scream and jump for joy at the sign of his “friend” coming to play with him…..but when I asked him to go somplace he had no interest in….he would act like the little 5 year old child at the grocery store have a temper tantrum………well, with a 1000 horse that can be an issue…. I, in ignorance, tryed to repremand him a couple times…..wrong, and he let me know it……..he would come back aggressively to any type of physical reprimand, and did scare me a couple of times…………I now learned to get into his head…….when he gets excited I step back, talk softely, send him away from me if necessary, and let him regroup……….works EVEY time…… Quiet behavior, begets a calmer stallion………at least with him it works and he is an Alpha. I always mentally try to equate his behavior to a little 5-6 year old boy!!! Lots of energy and strong willed…….. On the other side, it is this strong will that makes him brilliant!!! He is trick trained to play fetch, works at liberty, and I’m teaching him how to paint pictures……he gets bored VERY easily so I have to keep bringing forward new tasks to keep challenging his mind…which I enjoy. My ultimate goal is Exhibition riding, bridleless and I know we will attain that level……….that is how much I trust him and he in turn has shown me the same love and trust. I would not suggest a stallion for everyone though…having owned mares and geldings I can tell you first hand it takes a LOT of extra devotion and I never let my awareness of who he is and what he is be taken for granted….after all he is a Stallion. I specifically imported him because of my desire to build my farm around him as the premier breeding stallion. If he was dangerous or unmanageable or not the quality of horse to reproduce equal or better than himself, I would geld him. Keeping a horse a stallion just for the sake of it is not in anyones best interest….horse or owner. However, that being said he has shown me a part of the horse world that is so Magnificent!!! He is my love and my special boy. I’m sure everyone on this site loves their horses as much as I do…they are our friends and will give us unconditional love in response to our love. Thank you for allow me to share with you!! I enjoy everyone’s comments!
Hi everyone, I think I must be living in an alternative universe! I have competed geldings at great speed over jumps and have trusted my life to their choices time after time. I don’t think I’ve encountered a gelding who was lazy because he was a gelding, any more than I have found mares or stallions to be that way because of their sex. I teach many riders and have worked with thousands of horses over more than 40 years and can’t say I find the energy aspect to be anything to do with sex. Maybe we get what we expect? I do prefer mares and stallions because of the heightened conversation but that’s the only difference I find. Some mares do have hormonal problems which mean they need us to let them be on some days but I don’t see that being any different to any illness. Most mares I’ve known didn’t need any special approach. When they do, I look to their relationship with their human for the reason why!
I have a couple mares that fit everything you said about them. I’ve never owned mares before, and as I develop relationships with more mares, I am finding that I prefer them over geldings. I have a deeper relationship than I ever did with any gelding.
Dear Jan,
I treat ever horse by what he offers in the moment as who he is. If he acts like a stallion out of control on a line I take him to a place that I could get better control and that would be the spot he was the most relaxed before is got out of control. Once I gain control I would take him back to the trouble sport in your case to the mare in question and at the point he acts like a stallion out of control I take him back to the spot that I can gain relaxation and then I keep him there untill he can stand quietly on a droped line. I repeat untill the horses can behave pleasently nose to nose.
About the liberty work I drive the horse out of an area of the carrots and untill the horse give up the intrest to want to be close to the carrots on the other side of the fence.
My DVD Panadero’s Journey shows the training session I am speaking of as well as on youtube that is titled “How to treat a stallion.”
I would not try to work him in any thing while he has the tube.
He could work it out of his neck and have to have it replaced again. Remember to share space and read a book or any other project that requires sitting. Do not talk on the phone. The idea is to be really present to the moment and the enviroment. The move attentive you are sitting in the chair the more respect you will gain and the more he will bond.
I would also do alot of relaxed walking with him on a line and grazing with the exercise you can eat and not eat on comand. The horses will become more relaxed and love the challenge and will become morerespectful and connected.
Remember attentivness and slowing down and asking for quality of connection is more important that exercies is for him at this time.
Hope this is of help,
Carolyn
Hi kate,
I hope you did not get the idea that I do not like geldings from my writing I love all horses just as they are and who they are. The horse I like best is always the one I am standing the closest to.
Geldings have always been the favorite of choice with the hrose world. I surely did not want to creat a war on this topic. I wanted to take a close look to creat respect and a deeper connection with all your horses. Personaly if I am working with geldings only they become by favorite to work with because I develop a rythem that they gvie me. The same is true with mares and stallions.
Caorlyn
Re: the common theme that geldings are “lazy”. I wonder if testosterone removal makes them smarter? Hmmm. ;o)
In the wild, lazy is a good
thing as in energy conservation!
I love my 2 complicated geldings. Of my burros, I have 2 jennies. They definitely add spice to the mix. The gelded burros are sweethearts but the girls are their leaders.
Carol, I love how you have dubbed your geldings “The Gentlemen”! I think my gelding is a perfect genleman as well – my husband and all the men at our barn are jealous too because of the bond we share. My horse was trained to bow and when I first laid eyes on him he bowed to me! Of course he won my heart at that moment. What an intelligent and loving horse he is.
Carolyn, thanks for making this a safe place to share our feelings!
Kate in the NW,
I love your reply. Exactly, I feel like this for my horses too. It’s not about riding, nor handling. It’s just the horse. It’s the kind of animal I love, not what I can do with them, what I can use them for. I don’t need a horse to do anything with it. I just love them and am concerned to maintain their emotional and physical health as best I can for ever.
I allways wanted a mare, but then this gelding found me and today I can’t say I love either one of them more than the other. They are very different, but then again geldings vs geldings are very different as well – it’s very hard to generalize.
I love this complicated mind of my gelding and even though we often seem to not get along at all, it’s the two of us who have the special connection -whatever that be.
This was a very interesting post to me. I have two geldings and one mare living as a small herd. My first horse, a gelding, is the dominant horse of the group. Since they have room to stroll about all day on their own account and don’t depend on feeding times, as I have hay laid out for them in several spots all day long, they became very independant. They don’t care about the world outside. So, when I enter their territory they have a means of herding me around and such. With the leading gelding this escalated a couple of times when we had to close the pasture, so they could only move around in their paddock. He got so upset, that he charged and threatened to kick. Thanks to his good measurement both times he didn’t make contact, but the kicks were aimed high and he was moving backwards into my direction. I usually give some space then but move in again right after and have him yield away from me and once he is more positive he may come in again.
This horse is very spirited in one way. Very stallion like often. On the other hand he is a lazy animal whenever you ask something of him. It needs so much energy to get him moving. He allways takes care to put himself in a position of demanding. He allways has his ears back, he’s allways pushing, dragging, pulling. If I up pressure a lot and really have him stay with me mentally and keep asking for action every second, he is great to work with and he can develop a great work ethic. But the first “good boy” for an exercise well done will quench the spark immediately and totally.
Sometimes I am at a loss with his behaviour. I notice an improvement when I try to stay in charge over his actions when I would like to check on them for any scratches or injuries once a day. He usually wont stand and he keeps on trying to herd the other two horses around. And he has a way of moving right into your private space to get a scratch from you, if you try to keep him away, he will put his ears back even more and keep on invading. So I started to let him come in only when his ears are forward, but he will walk away. So, I have to go keep him from herding the others and from walking away. This takes about 2 hours in total until for the first time he will look at me from a distance with ears forward.
He is very inconsistent with all his behaviour. Sometimes he is great, sometimes he isn’t. He is with me since the spring of 2000 and we’ve had so many up and downs and I’m still searching for the point where I can confidently say we’ve connected. He tends to withdraw again and again. Never knew such a complicated horse. He’s a great teacher and I keep learning each day. My other horses are, compared to him, just a joy to have and very easy. And from all the horses I know this gelding is really a riddle still to me.
And maybe this has also to with the fact that he was gelded. So his energy is disbalanced.
Carol,
Your love and devotion to your gentlemen comes through in your writing. I’d love to hear more about them: age, breed, etc. And if have pictures, maybe a website?? I’d be very interested!
Loved reading your post.
Katie
Hi Kate in the NW,
Don’t worry. You’re not the only one who worships your gelding. I spend my days with two of them, whom I’ve dubbed “The Gentlemen” and my husband is pea green with jealousy. I love the way they smell, their long eyelashes, and even watching them eat. I respect them for who they are, not what they can do for me. One recently fractured his knee and is no longer rideable, but I intend to keep him forever. I not only owe it to him, but to give him up would be like selling part of my very soul. My other more dominant gelding had been mistreated before I got him, so he’s patiently taught me to slow down and rejoice over the tiny improvements in trust that come each day. The lessons my two gentlemen have taught me over the years are invaluable to me, and I wouldn’t change the experiences I’ve had with them for anything.
I LOVE my TB gelding…he is not perfect, but pretty darn close to it
) He is a character and I love his impish personality…and yes, he can certainly be lazy. After many years without a horse, last year, I was given the gift of Binky. He is a retired jumper. He is sweet and pretty rock solid…the perfect guy for me. I have been watching my Waterhole Rituals DVD (over and over), just soaking it in. Every morning after I am done feeding and cleaning I get my chair and book (Naked Liberty right now) and I sit in his paddock, reading and sipping my chai tea (I call it our little tea party). I feel our connection getting stronger & stronger. Carolyn, your method just feels so right, I thank you so much for sharing your wisdom with all of us.
Everyone it is so nice to share our experiances. It is so enjoyable and exciting to read.
This site is like my home I would like to keep it in a state of harmony. There are other sites that get into disagreements but my site is for sharing only in the moment of connection.
Kate in the NW, I absolutely agree. My gelding, Maestro, who used to be dangerous and angry… well I have never ridden him, was too frightened to in the first 2 years that I had him… but yes indeed, the relationship with the horse is paramount, NOT the “means to an end” for riding them… I could not love this horse more if I had given birth to him myself (a little extreme maybe but I dont have kids, my horses ARE my family!) and to see him overcome his fears and mistrust has been a journey for me that has totally run out of expletives. He was so afraid of water when I first got him (was trained for the track using a wet saddle blanket with electric wires in it for crying out loud!!) that I couldnt bathe him properly for 3 years. The day I washed him completely, conditioned his magnificent mane and tail, rinsed that off, all while he was standing in my house yard without a halter or lead rope on, free to run away if he felt he needed to….is a day that will long live in my memory. I cried the whole time I washed him, tears of joy, and of such love for this proud horse who had come through the worst of it….. I get the emotional part of your post… I am the same way with Maestro….
Carolyn,
Would you do anything different for geldings that are gelded late?Many TBs are. Xcel is very stallion like in his behavior. I DO NOT let him come nose to nose with a mare! He is not sexual in anyway so far. Magic on the other hand, who is 18 now, is a normal gelding except around a mare. Currently he is madly in love with the mare I have for sale. I think he would try to breed her if he could. He gets very aroused! But the mare is turned out with a gelding who gets along well with mares.
Archie, the one who has Lyme and Anaplasmosis is not sexual at all but the rearing, striking and biting he does is rather stallion like. The vet had to put a new catheter in him the other day and he was rearing and striking at her. The only time he has really done that with me is when he was really sick and not in his right mind. He tries to mess around biting though. I am very concerned about his behavior. I have not tried to work with him when he has the catheter in but I guess I could. I am not sure where I would start with him.
Also, I was trying Go trot and Come up with Xcel and I got a little confused about what to do. He runs off but then wants to go straight to where the cookies are (they are on the other side of the fence). But he wants to go there instead of to me so then I have to chase him off again. If I do get him to hook up with me, do we then just go get a cookie? He is very good with Eye contact and got better after a while about one line driving with me today. We had not done that for ages. He always has a tendency to get mad if he thinks I am asking him to “work.”
Well, what an interesting subject to find on your site after reading , really, not so much of all you have on line. But first I have to respond to Jack’s post. As I learned it, many tribes used color to help determine some innate characteristics in horses. As did the arabs. A horses courage in battle could mean life or death. Now, about mares, gldngs, stallions. Been around more that a few of each. I’ve meet stallions I had soo much respect for. Wise old men. Some young and full of themselves. Mares that seemed more like studs, and mares that sought to comfort me when I was down. Geldings that were more than most people would want to handle, and the babysitters with children piled three deep on his back and loving every minute of it. And everything inbetween. To me it just comes down to having the same expection as when meeting a person, we’re all individuals. We are all different. Horses are living beings with a very sophisticated brain, nervous system and physical ability. Each individual is an individual. Nothing more to say.
I have to admit to being a little put off by some of the comments about geldings. This is not meant to invalidate anyone else’s experiences, I am just especially prickly on this subject because I am deeply “in love” with a gelding who, on the surface, exhibited many of the behaviors called out in some of the comments. He is “lazy” and prickly and standoffish and has a high wall around his heart. Wouldn’t you, if someone cut off YOUR ovaries/testicles?
What I have come to discover over the last two years is that he is EXTREMELY sensitive emotionally, even if his “gas pedal” is a little sluggish now and then… that doesn’t mean his heart is. It took me a full year to get “on the inside” with this horse, and (as far as I know) he’s never been ill-treated or abused. He’s just a normal sort of gelding. I love him unconditionally, though I do demand (and give) respect, and over time, in return, he has let me inside a very high wall that he maintains, both with other horses and with other people. If you are not inside this wall, you would never see the exquisite responsiveness and understanding he is capable of. No, it doesn’t always translate to what happens under saddle or even in groundwork, but neither of those is why I have a horse. I have a horse because I *L*O*V*E* the animal. If I could never ride or use a halter again I would keep my horse and spend as much time as possible with him and with horses generally. The riding is secondary. I think he knows this, and once he really believed it of me, a whole other world opened up.
PLEASE love your geldings. There is stuff deep in there that people don’t always give them credit for, and that maybe takes a long time to get to.
Then again, I have always gotten along better with men than women…maybe that’s part of it too. I just love my big fuzzy, grumpy boy and want every gelding (every horse, for that matter…) to have someone who loves and understands them. Not that I really claim to understand my gelding (I am, after all, a human!), but I try – and he sure does appreciate it.
Sorry if this is an especially emotional reply, but that’s how I feel.
I have in my paddock currently 2 mares, a gelding and a young stallion. I dont need a tv for entertainment, I love to watch my horses interact with each other… Its quite an eye opener. The politics of the group is at it’s core quite stable but little changes happen within that group… When I first brought my brown mare and her black colt home, they banded with my bay gelding… and left my palomino mare “out inthe cold”, almost completely ignoring her. This upset her a great deal, as she had spent the better part of 4 years in company of my bay gelding… Talk about emotional mares!!!! Crikey! As I am intent of allowing the pally mare to become in foal as Mother Nature would have it, I have now set up the herd dynamics for her to run with the young colt (he is learning his manners from her now), with the bay gelding and the brown mare (who is in foal to another hrose elsewhere) to pair up… things are working much better that way and have resulte din more itneraction between the mares.
As far as “learnability” is concerned, my gelding was abused a great deal in his racing days. Nothing worked with him, not Monty or Parelli or anything else, other than a website you may wish to look at… http://www.thenaturalhorse.org – a program called Friendship Training which has allowed him to transform from an angry violent horse who quite frankly used to scare the living daylights out of me to a gentle, workable, interesting horse with an absurd sense of humour… To sayhe now fills my heart with joy is an understatement. He is easy to “reach” now and it is a rare day that he doesnt listen to me – on those days I must look to myself for my own inadequacies in my communication.
My palomino mare on the other hand is very much her own horse, had grown up pretty much alone on the Nullarbor Desert in central Australia prior to her coming to me after being shot and left to die, and no amount of mollycoddling from me can turn her into anything other than Miss Independance… When she is in season however she craves attention from me, and becomes very needy….
I am new at developing realtionships with a stallion, and very cautious in ensuring that we have a healthy respect for each other. Dance needs to know that he can trust me, can learn from me, and whilst I do respect him he must appreciate the fact that I am a breakable human being. Reeactions to his “bad behaviour”, usually trial and error in learning his manners, are swift and non-emotional, with instant forgiveness. So far so good. He is 18 months old and very tuned in to what I need from him in his ground work.
At no time is any of my training with the horses in any form of an enclosed area, I do not use ropes or whips or any other training aids other than the days when I am specifically, for example, teraching Dance how to be led or wear a halter for his own safety…. it is all about communication and allowing the horse to have the freedom to express his or her own opinions and feelings, so long as my safety is paramount. As such my hroses have learnt that if they want to disagree with me, they may do so, at a distance, and calmly.. which they do. If they feel threatened or scared they have the option of retreating to a safe distance, but then that is again cause for me to look within myself for whatever I have done to make them feel that way….
Sorry.. rambling… will go and read the website again, very very interesting concepts and thoughts. Thanks so much… rare to find a training system where the horse is paramount instead of ego.
cheers
Ally
Queensland Australia
Pam,
Yes, I belive it is the answere as well as they naturally form strong allinaces by nature.
Kammie,
I would suggest you buy Panadero’s Journey and go to youtube and watch the viedo called “How to treat a stallion,” that might be all you need.
He can be fixed. I have never met a horse that can not be fixed on this manner but you my have the odd one but my guess is that you do not.
On my site may times I have offering suggestions about how to apporach these matters.
My suggestion for you is when he trys to bit while he is eating move back not in fear but in respect then more up to where he tried to bite you again and if he tries to bit ask him to move way from his food and do not let him come back untill his ears are forward and he is relaxed. Keep repeating this it should help alot
Let us know how it turns out.
Dear Jack,
Maybe in was in the book “Tracker”. I do belive him. I have also seen indications of this myself. Ther are still herds that run in one color bands today. I Knew of a stallion that would not breed a chestnut mare. I have also witness that in herds that have diffrent colors at some point in the day they will par up with horses of the same age and colors for companion grazing and naps as well as companion walks. I have many picture recording these kinds of paring up. I am going this year to North Dekota to study more herds at Jefferson National Park while we still have the opertunity to see wild hores in nature. I have a DVD that will be out soon on wild horses that I studied last year at Return to Freedom. On this next tripI hope to record the ritulas that I use so people can witness them in nuatre.
I owned a gelding for three years before getting a young (4yr old) mare. I am amazed at the response that the mare can give–on a good day, all I have to do is think what I want us to do and it instantly happens. I feel very much closer to her and I think it is a deeper emotional connection. I have also had to learn to negotiate more than with the gelding, to ask nicely, especially when she’s in season. Most of the people I talk to here say that mares are more trouble than geldings, but when they’re good, they are the best. I think I agree. Still a big learning curve, though. I definitely agree with Carolyn that mares can have strong opinions!
Interesting article!
This seems to be true with most of the horses I have known.
My gelding was gelded when he was 4 years old, before I bought him. He is a very curious, playful horse, he loves to explore, investigate everything with his mouth, and go to new places…. but it can be very hard to keep his energy and enthusiasm going. :/ If I take him on a trail ride, or play with him in the woods, or a place that is new for him, he has plenty of energy though. But in a pasture or arena, he doesn’t have near as much enthusiasm, unless it is a cold day.
For a warm up before playing at liberty in an arena or pasture, would it be good to warm him up with a line on (cordeo with a leadrope attached), outside the arena or pastures, in the open, where he is more enthusiastic?
I would really like him to enjoy using his energy more when he is playing with me.
Thanks for the great article!
Nicole
Corinna, My gelding is also calm and looks as though he is studying me deeply….I have learned to respond in kind. He loves it!
Hi,
my mare is responding exactly like Carolyn said. Before working with her I have to say always very sweet words, how she is wonderful, beautiful, groom her, give her some treats, and again to move around her like a real lover! Only after this she can give me her complete trust, attention and heart.
But with my young gelding I have more difficult time because he is acting a little like a stallion with me. He is a leader, and he looks quite and calm but he studies me deeply. I would like to know more about this subject.
You mentioned color. I read a book once many decades ago that was a chat between a young boy and his great grandfather who was an American Indian from the Dekotas. The great grandfather told his great grandson that when they first saw horses running free on the big grass that the horse bands were always segregated into groups by color. The blacks were all together. The bays were all together. The palaminos were all together. The pintos were all together, etc. He said that as long as his people chose to interact with the horses by sitting by the water and waiting for them to come up, the groups stayed that way. He said it wasn’t until the white man started chasing them and trying to catch them that way that they started to integrate with each other. Wish I could remember the author or the title, but it sounds about right to me. What do you think?
I’ve had two mares and I now have two TH geldings. I’d have mares any day. One of my geldings is very dominant. He is a nuisance to other owners as he tears other horses rugs and is very aggressive with the other horses. He doesn’t like being told off and if he feels this he is straight onto the defensive. He used to rear and bite although this year he has stopped this toward people but the dominance with horses persists. The other is more mellow but very stand offish. He always has his ears back if you go to touch him in the box (although he wont do anything to hurt you), swishes his tail and lifts his hind legs. My two mares were a dream compared and very forward going, loving and loyal. I never had the problem of the moods with these two, maybe I was lucky.
I have had both mares and geldings in my years of owning horses. I find that my mares tended to connect to me on a more emotional level than the geldings, or maybe a deeper emotional level is what I would like to say. I do agree with the mares not being as trusting with people and other horses. Although as a mare matures so does their behavior and their defenses. I’ve noticed that my mare doesn’t need to be aggressive with other horses. She just radiates her intent. Her goals have changed from being head honcho to being a leader who wants to keep the herd in a workable relationship. Her nuturing side was able to come out.
The girls do seem to enjoy friends of the same sex. I do notice the mares have an appreciation for the wise energy of the more mature mares. I’ve noticed mares rarely play those oral games that the geldings play like grab the halter. My impression is that a mare would equate that to that stupid boy that grabbed your bra strap to snap in middle school. I feel that mares energy and personalities are very similar to the female humans.
Carolyn, You mention that mares are more quick to learn than geldings. Is this because they are more focused on reading the intentions of people than geldings, as you mentioned? Just curious.
Thank you
Pam, my gelding is a bundle of fun too, never know what he is going to do or eat next.
Depends on the stallion….
I worked for a woman who imported and sold friesians. Great job, let me tell you. I took care of all the mares and stallions that went through quarantine. Now, of course their is always variety. I met some stallions that were absolute spitfires. Anything that moved might be a mare. And under saddle they were always in front of my leg and moving. But I also had other stallions that unless it was a mare waving her tail at him in estrus, he really couldn’t be bothered to react. Those guys were a bit dull under saddle. Then there was one that was a maniac on the ground but obedient under saddle. Very lazy too.
The mares were the same way. Some firey, some dull. In general, most were more observant that the stallions. I definitely have perceived more intelligence in mares. Its likely more due to the fact that geldings and stallions have short attention spans, like Carolyn says, rather than true intellectual ability.
I never dealt with the geldings that were imported, so I can’t say. Although I have a gelding and his attention span or gas pedal is dependent on his mood. Sometimes he’s on his game. Other times he’s just not interested in using his brain that day.
I think you can make an overall generalization about the sexes, but there are always exceptions and no “rules.” I’m sure anyone who has handled dozens of each sex can attest to that.
I, of course, can only say what I have seen.
Katie
I am a gelding person myself. I own a TB gelding and I ride a warm blood stallion, that is owned by my trainer. I have noticed that most geldings have issues with the gas pedal (people often like to call them lazy) and most mares are very fast (too much in front of the leg aid) and have to be slowed down. My TB prefers women to men and is most attracted to dark bay or black horses – turns out I find dark bay or black horse to be attractive as well. Even though geldings are a little more work, once you do get their attention I find them to be more fun than mares. I also enjoy how gentle and sweet they can be in one minute and the next minute they can be dominant brutes.
Thanks for discussing this subject, I thought I was the only one who noticed the differences!
Hi Carolyn,
I am so glad you are talking about stallions. There just isn’t much information out about them. I have a half quarter/half Belgian that I rescued from abuse who has been gelded. He definately has stallion behaviour and that is why he was probably abused. The biting is one of the worst ones. He used to be extremely aggresive but now he is only when he feels scared. I tried all my normal Parelli methods on him and they didn’t work. I starting seeking other methods just so I could touch him even. That is when I found you and your waterhole rituals.
I can now brush him and not have him bite me sometimes, I can give him a hug while he is eating and he doesn’t just blow up constantly. They have made a big difference in him, but I am still having a terrible time getting him to concentrate and not just want to bite me or the carrot stick or whatever is within reach. I also want to say that he is so scared. He comes off as this aggressive, strong horse but he is afraid of even the slighest noise etc. He is hyper-vigilant. Do you have any suggestions to help me?
I have been waiting for this answer for a long time. Thanks so much.
My mare used to be very careful not to let me fall off, would slow if you lost a stirrup, etc, keeping you safe. My gelding couldnt care less if you fall off, he just stands there and waits for you to get back on, he messes about terribly when you ride him, but thinks your balance issues, needs, worries, confidence or anything else you can think of are YOUR problem not his. He just gets on with his fun. (He was gelded at 4yrs and was semi-feral). I have always put his bold attitude about everything down to this. If you are polite to him, he is a gem, but if you get rude/too much pressure with him, he responds by fighting, not through fear but through dominance.
I would rather have a hormonal mare any day that I can have conversations with and bring round than another gelding, he is hard work, but alas only the funds for one.
Thanks Carolyn for this excellent breakdown of Stallion, mares, and geldings. I think this is so important to remeber when working with our horses. I especially liked the part about mares. I would like to learn more about how you are able to work with a moody mare so that she is able to focus on her work. However, realizing like you said that sometimes they just need their time.