Natural horsemanship
Apr 16th, 2009 by Carolyn
Hi and thank you for all your lovely stories, photo’s and videos from Tuesday about working with my Method. Sorry if I haven’t replied to you yet, I will try and get to you.
It is only natural when we learn something new to have many questions and I know how frustrating it is not to have these answered. As you start to work with the Waterhole Rituals therefore, I really want to support you and so I am thinking of putting together a program that will enable me to walk you through the Rituals and then answer any questions you may have as you go along. We’re still looking into this at the moment but if you have any questions that I haven’t answered or any suggestions as to how this would work best for you, then please email Mark at info@carolynresnick.com.
The other day I was asked how my Method fits in with Natural Horsemanship and afterwards I thought the question would make for an interesting blog post. So this is the written up and expanded version of my answer.
In the initial relationship, rather than training a horse, my desire is to create a spiritual connection, which will in turn bring out an enthusiastic performance. My first interest therefore is to make a heart connection and a deep friendship. I start the bonding process of a horse’s training by working him in a large enough space that he has a clear advantage over me and that he is aware of it. I put food and water in the area I start him in. I do not start his training until he looks on this area as his new home and that he is comfortable with my presence at liberty.
I want a horse to be aware that I respect his space and I am willing to wait until I get a clear invitation that he will allow me to walk up to him. I make sure I don’t overstay my welcome by leaving right away. This way, when I leave he becomes curious, pleasantly surprised and gets a clear idea that I just wanted to say ‘Hello!’. In this initial approach, I am demonstrating to the horse my interest in leading like a leader would with a mare he is courting. This demonstration is a very valuable tool in winning the horse over to expect my leadership. The basic training needs to be built on the relationship, developing social order and a language we both understand rather than the horse feeling he needs to learn that he cannot escape my presence or needs to learn that he cannot escape what I am asking him to perform. It is better if a horse does not want to do what I ask, that I stop asking and then ask again when he is more sure of himself.
Horses need their instincts honored and developed. My Method is therefore much different than so called natural horsemanship. I want a horse to know that he can run away if he chooses and the reason I seek his company is because I like being with him, not that he needs to do something for me. I demonstrate to the horse that I will always respect his wishes and I will never enter his personal space without permission.
From observing horse behavior when horses first greet each other you will see the rituals I have chosen to use as they develop a deep bond with a lead horse that is a care-taker. When I interact with the horse using their rituals they understand my intent because they know the subject I am addressing is the bond.
From these rituals and laws that horses feel are fair and just, I am able to develop a personal language I can share with each horse that I am getting to know and trust. From this initial bond, the training time through the teamwork skills we have developed significantly reduces. The bond I create makes the horse a quick and willing learner with a desire to perform what I ask of him. The burden is on me to become the leadership he would choose without the influence of fences and ropes.
A herd of horses has a culture similar to ours with rules that all horses find desirable. Following their code and developing a language is vital to gaining a working relationship with a horse.
When a human approaches a horse the first questions in a horses mind are “I wonder want he wants?”, “Is this human a friend or foe?” and “I wonder how strong he is?” If he is stronger, it might be a good idea to stay away. A horse is first mistrusting and afraid he must follow leadership rather than being allowed to choose.
When the horse gets over this initial fear and becomes bonded with the humans he will then become aggressive and demanding. This is the natural progress and behavior of horses because of their pecking order nature. The ritual I have chosen develops the trust and a bond at the appropriate time. After the horse feels bonded, I gain leadership before the horse loses respect and begins to start telling me what to do in an unpleasant manner.
The rituals horses use are the natural process of developing a committed friendship using the pecking order rules horses respect and honor. The deep bond that I have created enhances the life experience for the horse and myself.
Enjoy your weekend, till next week…
Best wishes
Carolyn
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Hi Carolyn
Thanks so much for your Waterholes Rituals DVD and for the knowledge given on this forum.
We have been trying to help abused horses and have several rescues at present. We have had success with some but we have a gelding that I wonder if he can ever be persuaded to trust any human being again. He is an appaloosa and had previously been used as a stockhorse on a cattle station. When we purchased him from the slaughter-yard, he was a very sorry sight. He was 20 years old, was physically and emotionally worn out – very depressed and trembling. His hooves were pixie shaped, his teeth had sharp edges, he was thin and he had a very swayed back with scars from saddle sores on both withers. Hunks of muscle in his neck were chunked out where it seems he got caught on a star picket or a steer’s horns. For the first year we did not ask anything from him, except that he eat his food, and stand to have his hooves trimmed and of course we made the mistake of forcing our affection on him as we didn’t know about waterholes rituals then. We tried to give him mega doses of reassurance that we would never try to hurt him. He was treated with good feed and minerals and began to put on some weight but his epaxial muscles have been damaged and he’ll never have a good topline again. A year after we purchased him, our 11 year old daughter began riding him around the farm in a halter and saddle pad. He took off on her a couple of times and so she doesn’t want to ride him anymore. I began to ride him and he was very obliging, apart from galloping off on me the last time I rode him, but I was able to pull him up. I can now see I’ve been doing it all wrong. I have tried hard to win this horse’s trust but I can see that I actually forced him into being ridden and to have to tolerate me being around him. At least I can pat him now without him trembling, but he is never relaxed around us. The equine dentist treated his teeth two days ago and even with 5 injections of 3 different drugs, could not get our poor horse under proper sedation. The drugs were effecting him, but he kept fighting against the relaxation. The vet said made several comments that this horse must have been severely abused because through fear he was fighting the sedation so strongly. I’m sure the gelding thought he was fighting for his life, but even so, he never tried to escape from the crush, bite, strike, kick or harm us in any way (never has either). In your experience Carolyn, is a horse that has been severely abused – but never the in the past 2 years – capable of forming a trust relationship at this late stage of his life? If so, which of the waterhole rituals would you consider to be the most important for this previously abused horse? I really have trouble believing that he’ll ever approach me even if I sat there waiting for two years, so some testimonials from your own experience or with others who have had success in gaining the trust of severely abused horses, would be very encouraging! I read the story about the nervous racehorse Rosie and watched the video, and that was encouraging but would love more details from Allesandra or Carolyn about which rituals were the most important in developing that fragile trust. Because I started wrong with this gelding, can I still go back and try again with him or would someone else have to take over? Thanks very much.
Hi Mary,
thanks for writing. I’m not sure how to do this with e-mail addies either. The Epona information is fascinating. It sounds like there is a lot of common ground between Carolyn and Epona, especially the idea of horses helping improve human culture.
All the best,
Christian
Christian – I was excited to learn that you are from MA. I live on Cape Cod. I have been in love with Carolyn’s work since I discovered it about 5 months ago. My experience with horses is through Reiki energy work, although as a child my sister had a horse. She was the rider and I was the little sister who would sit behind her. We always did this bareback!
I have had the great opportunity to have been taken through the transformational process of The Way of the Horse, developed by Linda Kohanov, author of The Tao of Equis and director and owner of Epona, in New Mexico ( I think that is the state)
Anyway, I am hoping that I will be able to make friends with others in MA who are doing this type of work.
I don’t own a horse but am able to go to the stable I use to ride at and spend horse time and offer Reiki to those who want it.
Does anybody want Reiki? I ask, and the horse clients show up!
I have no idea if I can give you my email here or how we could get in touch, if that is something you would be interested in.
Glad to have run across you here, Mary
Carolyn
I have a question regarding doing other things at liberty. I have been doing some things at liberty with my horses for some time, mostly because I discovered it worked. When I began reading your book and your blog I was very excited that someone advocated time spent at liberty. About a year ago one of my horses had gotten a small injury that needed to be cleaned and dressed, nothing serious, but I wanted to tend to it for the oviouse reasons. I found that he was willing to stand perfectly for me if I just went to the pasture and worked on the wound. I have also found that I can also go out while they are grazing and do some farrier work, and grooming. (My horses are barefoot). I know that some people do not do their own farrier work, but we all do grooming and it seems to be just that much more pleasing to my horses when they are at liberty. I also know that some people would freak out if I told them these things. I am sure people will be telling me how dangerous it is and so on. I find my horses are calm and willing in their pasture enviroment when I do these things, and I realize the risks. Do you have an opinion on this type of thing?
I just want to thank you Carolyn from the bottom of my heart for your book and your Dvd’s! I have a Friesian gelding that I have been doing NH for the past 6 yrs.. but my heart didn’t always feel right about it…it still was too much pressure and seemed demanding rather than requesting..if that makes sense . Anyhow your program has struck a cord deep within and now I am incorporating the WaterHole Rituals into our relationship and I am very excited.
!
My horse lives in a heard of about 20 or so horses and we’ve always had a good relationship,,,he will leave the herd to come to me when I go to see him and we have worked a lot at Liberty in the past , but I now feel that w/ the Rituals it will refine the way in which I interact w/ him at Liberty & definitely deepen and further our relationship.
What I am seeing is a lot better ears these days ,which is sooo rewarding . Thank you so much again and I hope that you will be coming out with more dvds in the very near future
with kindest regards,
Mitzi
Thank you Carolyn, I started to think about this idea from your article and then from the responses and it is right on the mark. I have been getting the feel for this in myself and it has been very beneficial in so many other areas in my life and now that I am clearer as to what I would like from the mares and I ask more clearly and directly there is so much more connection. I notice that they are so much more relaxed and happy to come along now that I mean what I say and I am not so wishy washy. We live and learn. I thought that I should leave a no at a no and not try to convince them because they would get mad or something and that I now realize is not so. I get that its not about force but the wooing or convincing so that the no becomes a yes. That requires self confidence. I do think that in the near future I would like some phone coaching to clarify things, but for now I will continue along this line in small steps, mostly for my benefit, and learn how to be a confident and caring leader. What I didnt understand was what to do when you have the bond, I didnt know how to then use this to move on to other things, I was staying at the first two rituals and only the bond stage for too long and the horses were waiting for the rest, and nothing confident was comming from me and so the connection kept getting lost, and the horses would lose interest. I think I am beginning to understand and will go away and work and play with it for a while and see. It will be a lot of fun and I know I will learn a lot.
Thanks again
Valezka
Dear Valezka,
I can tell you need to get stronger in your leadership. The rule is you are equal and not equal you decied this not your horses. There will be times the horse does not get to choose. the Waterhole Rituals is a perfect place to fix these matters. You are incharge of your horses as you are in charge of your children and your own responsibilites as a leader.
An example; lets say you have some young children and they want to play outside where there is a pool and you say you can play on the porch but not on the lawn around the pool. When they won’t stay on the porch any more they must then be brought in the house. At this point you might say to me but Carolyn they are equal and can get to do what they want which would not be good for them socially in thier future lives as well as dangerious. They would also not learn any copying skills in how to fit and be trusted.
If you are working with the Rituals you will gain control over a horse that will not say “no” any more. If you get a negitive response in your horse not wanting to follow your lead work on taking territory and leading for behind, eye contact in creative stronger ways. Keep it up tell you get a “yes mam” attitude. Practice the Rituals untill the horse loose any intrest in not following your lead each day and you should not have any problems.
If you are riding a horse it is an equal partnership always in performance if it is a self serving act for you, if it is for the safty of your horse then your leadership must be enfoursed, the partnership is not equal any more.
More clarity on what is right and fair is what you seem to be struggling with.
I would suggest that you decide this for yourself because this is were your leadership with get strong and you will be clear!
If what I am suggesting is not helpful, I think I could help you better through phone coaching.
Best of luck and please respond back if you like,
Carolyn
Remember not to be punitive in your request only direct and clear. Some times soft people will go too much the other way. Just step it up a little and be more enforcefull on land leadership from behind and eye contact. Your horses will need to adjust to the new focus of your program so ask for more respect and control in stages.
Dear all,
thank you so much for this clarification on Natural Horsemanship and your own method, Carolyn, and for all the support and instruction that this blog offers. I am pretty new to this blog, so maybe I should introduce myself. I have been watching and reading for a while, but have never posted anything before. My name is Christian, I live in Massachusetts, have two horses, both Spotted Drafts, both black. My mare Lilly (8 years old now) looks a lot like a Friesian. My colt, Destry, is 10 months old. I have been studying your DVD’s, Carolyn, and your book, and thank you so much for enlightening people about horses’ social structures and culture. Before I found you/this blog, I had intuitively begun to work a lot at liberty with both my horses, as I felt I had come to an impasse with my mare about certain spook and freezing up issues, and going liberty made a huge difference. I am intuitively drawn to everything you teach, and feel that I have moved ahead in the relationship with my horses (who are both very different personalities, despite their similarity in breeding: Lilly is very unconfident, shy, polite, never intrudes in my space, has difficulty going forward, is very slow, very sensitive, and tries her heart out; my colt is confident, fearless, sometimes pushy, curious, outgoing, forward, and a super fast learner).
Anyway, I wanted to respond to something concerning “natural horsemanship” because I felt that I want to differentiate more. I totally agree with you about certain methods, such as Clinton Anderson, for example, where it is all based on “making the undesired behavior harder” through pressure and rewarding the desired behavior with release. He also talks explicitly against training based on relationship with the horse, and he says “giving them a good whack goes a long way”. There is nothing more different than that from what you teach and what I try to do with my horses. But I have been studying Parelli for a long time, and while I agree that certain ways of applying this method can play into the pressure/release approach, there are also lots of parallels: your first ritual is similar to Parelli’s “undemanding time”, your “eye contact” ritual is similar to Parelli’s “catching game”, your magnetic connection is similar to Parelli’s “stick to me game” etc. etc., and the general philosophy is about bond, relationship, and getting permission from the horse before asking them to do anything. You are much more radical about the bond, the permission etc. by doing everything at liberty at the beginning, whereas they teach to go online first, and then, when the bond is stronger, do liberty, and I have found your teaching very enlightening for the fear and unconfidence issues with my mare.
Anyway, I wanted to explain where I come from, how much I appreciate your work, especially the spiritual dimension of it, the “heart connection”…. I wish you were closer so I could bring my horses to study with you.
Christian
I just want to clarify a few things to make sure I am on the right track. A bit of history… I too have been doing NH for the last several years and I consider myself and my horse to have a great relationship. I think the connection could be better though… which has brought me to your methods.
My horse seems to enjoy spending the time with me but this time of year when he greets me and I let him out the gate he tells me what he would like to do for the day…this usually involves fresh spring grass. My understanding is if I have something else planned for the day…I would amble along behind him…not in a hurry and proceed to do driving from behind. Is that correct ? My horse will often turn and face me in this situation, so do I keep driving/walking toward him or would I turn and offer him the opportunity to follow.
Thanks for this post…I was wondering how to progress as I know what my horse will choose if given the opportunity. Usually has to do with food.
Also somewhere in a previous blog post you mentioned reference to horses and eating grass..with re to letting them or not as long as you choose the patch of grass. Could you please direct me to some information re same as I looked and could not find anything.
Hi everyone, just wanted to thank you all for the great answers that really clear up things for me, especially working out when i have been either to dominant or too submissive and not being aware of the connection and capitalizing on it. I hope that this timing and feel develop with time and patience the more I practice with the mares. Also Farah I really got a lot out of your response with the sport horse and how you connected and brought him in when he was ready and in his own time and then it was the right time. I see that putting pressure on myself to do something acheives absolutely nothing with this method as i will not be able to connect and ask in the right way to be successful. Much food for thought. I too have also found that to meditate with the horses everyday has been excellent for me to be able to connect and become more aware of the connection.
Thanks Carolyn and everyone
Valezka
I wanted to add my 2 cents on my experience today at one of my training facilities about the allowing the horse to run off and say no. I think you would appreciate this Carolyn as the horses I train at this particular barn are always out 24/7 in a herd and have the run of a few acres of open pasture. I have taken it upon myself to not use any halters to bring them in these days for there training work as it forces me to practice leadership and bonds on their terms. I have had wonderful results with them peacefully following me from their friends and grass and hay each time back to the barn which is a good distance. Today, one of the horses, a Sport horse who is dominant, fit and very playful did not want to come with me. I decided I would take as long as it took to get a bond and connect with him to come back to the barn. Boy! did he have a gleeful bucking laughing time of running those acres of grass saying no to me for a good hour. I was patient and kept working through saying hello, leading from behind and eye contact and quietly persisting. I had to laugh when at last he turned and trotted straight to me. I felt like it was cool because he really did have a huge pasture to get away from me and I kept thinking this is a really good challenge. I tested my skills and it was successful in the end…the right way…: )
Hello Carolyn, thank you for your reply which is of great help. It confirms my observation that on some of the horses where I didn’t continue to capitalize on improvements as you say I had to go back to the taking territory ritual. Today I did find a way to move on to the next step – the go out and trot – and it worked! I was happy and the mare was proud and so we were proud together. Later the day she put up a little show for me, showing me how free and tough and playful she is. It is truly fun to work that way! And tomorrow I will experiment more with that ambling energy – I will feel freer to lead from behind. I have been living with these horses since 5-10 years so the connection is there, but now I discover new sides in the relationships that I did not reach out to with natural horsemanship techniques. For example the horses begin to offer their own stuff back to me. Until then it felt more like them waiting for my next request. It becomes much more like a dialogue.
It is a great benefit to be able to ask in this forum. Thank you once more! Tina
Dear Tina,
To answer your question…, if a horse says “no” and I react to this by leading from behind – isn’t this then still a too dominant way of imposing my will on the horse? When should I leave a “no” at the “no” and when is it a help to the horse to be lead from behind?All you are bringing to the table in leading from behind is ambling energy. Ambling energy can not be perceived as being too dominant. Working at liberty teaches us how to communicate and figure out how to relate with a horse and learn about life and how to solve relationship problems. It is very hard to be abusive at liberty if the horse is free to leave you when he doesn’t like something and you do not go chasing after him but instead pursue the horse in a slow walk and your goal is to build respect rather than forcing respect or yourself on the horse.
In answer to your question about leading from behind when he says “NO” if he doesn’t want you to do that is he can run off. If you feel you have been too direct you can fix it by stopping your pursuit. If you have been too permissive you can continue to follow after him slowly and respectfuly and then ask for a few steps of leading from behind. When you catch up and when he takes a few steps you can then reward him by walking off. That is not being too dominant. The Rituals are the language of horses. Remember horses are tough and their ability to create order comes form their toughness and the open spaces cause horses to curb each others toughness by their inability to trap one another.
As a horse becomes bonded and more trained I allow less “No” in my relationships with horses because the horse feels a connection and will be more responsible but if you do not hold him to his responsibility he will become less responsible. When my relationship with a horse worsens I have either been too submissive or too dominant . It is one or the other. You can experiment. It is always a good idea to prepare your energy with a short meditation before you approach your horse to feel like the leader your horse would want to connect with and this feeling can give you clarity. Usually expermenting will not get you into trouble if you communicate in short interactions and pause between. When things begin to work, you need to capitalize on the better connection you have created. I have seen that not knowing how to capitilize on the improved response is usually problem I see people making . The relationship gets better but if a person doesn’t capitalize on the improvement you will be right back where you started. Be very observant and try to read how your horse is thinking from its response. If being more dominent works then go in that direction. Be direct but not punitive.
Let me know if this is of help,
Carolyn,
That is a good question, Valezka. I run into this myself as I like to go and ride with friends about once a week. Sometimes my horse does say NO! He will usually come around to a yes eventually, but….
Hello everyone, I would like to follow Tinas thread about when we should leave a no at the no and when we should lead from behind to gain leadership. I am at this stage now where I have made a lot of traditional friends and for the last couple of months I have developed a good bond with my mares but when they have said no I have always respected that and left it there until later on in the day when I would ask again and be successful or another day, but the problem I am having is that I have been told that I am not the leader at all and that I have no control over my girls. I was surprised because when they do choose to come we can do so many things at liberty and in halter or in saddle and they are always calm and respectful and willing and soft, so my question too is what if I have an agenda for the day for the farrier or a riding lesson and it is necessary for me to work with them and even if I have planned ahead and been there to bring them in well in advance, they connect to me but dont want to come and do what I need to do, I have until now respected that but lately I would like to be able to ride or get them to come quickly because I have someone waiting. This looks like I have no control, and I guess that I dont because I have always told them that we are equals. So when do we push a little more to encourage them without forcing them. I would like some more tips please because I feel that I have not understood it ptoprtly yet. I do not want to lose all that we have acheived so far, but I also want to participate with others.
Thanks for all the wonderful information
Valezka
Hi, this is so interesting! For quite some years I have been a student of natural horsemanship using feel as the most important indegidient. Since I discovered Carolyns method this winter I have had no rope on the horses anymore! And I experience some interesting stuff: for example I ask the horse to follow me to let’s say the riding arena. – without a rope. If my connectio. Is good and if it’s the right time and day for the horse he will follow me. (I have 11 to choose from). Let’s say it is not his day – if I had a rope and he would say no in his polite way I would maybe put a slight pressure on the rope and release hi. To me. Without rope – no chance. We’re eqals now. I can ask him, but I must respect his no. That means if he says yes we’ll have a great session. But if he says no each time – ok I know we have to improve or relationship. And so I’ll have to fetch him to the arena for a period of time with the help of a rope until the bond is strong enough. To work this way at liberty truly shows me very clearly how deep a relationship I’ve got to a specific horse. Also sometimes I was leading a horse and didn’t realize when he mentally was mot with me. To be a leader at liberty is an enormous consciousness producing method. But – and here comes a question: if a horse says “no” and I react to this by leading fro m behind – isn’t this then still a too dominant way of imposing my will on the horse? When should I leave a “no” at the “no” and when is it a help to the horse to be lead from behind?
Tina
It seems to me the key ingredient in the rituals lies in building a relationship on trust. I think all relationships are healthier if one knows they can escape if they want to. At least I know that works for me. If one comes from a place of wanting to fix the horse, for sure they feel that, and it is natural they’d want to get away, because they know they aren’t broken.
I’ve been working my horse at liberty pretty much since I got him (about six years) and now if I put a lunge line on it just doesn’t feel right and I find it boring. He also tries to switch the direction. Now somebody else can lunge him just fine, but not me. I’m wondering if this is due to the liberty play. Has anybody else experienced this?
Oh yeah, I thoroughly enjoy his company and he knows it! I have allowed him to be very playful, humorous, and affectionate with me. I have also taught him alot of words, so his vocabulary is vast. I think he is an easy horse to do the rituals with though. There are horses at my barn that I wouldn’t even dream of being loose in the arena with because of their lack of respect for people.
Regards,
Pam
Carolyn, I am working on the first ritual with my 9-year old mare, who has been with me for about a year. I hang with her in a large paddock or on the large, fenced lawn at the stable. In the paddock, I put down hay, which she loves, even when grass is available. Now that spring has come to Florida, the lawn has lots of grass. I have been wondering if hanging out with Amber on the lawn is too big of a space, but from your writing here, I can see that the lawn is a cool place. She has come up to me where I am sitting in my chair and nuzzled me before walking away and grazing. Now, also, when I go to the pasture to get her, she walks towards me – not all the way, but at least 1/2 way. And, the last time, she walked beside me all the way to the gate out of the pasture! We have a long way to go, but I was thrilled. Thank you for your insights
Kathy
Interesting. You said:
“I want a horse to know that he can run away if he chooses and the reason I seek his company is because I like being with him, not that he needs to do something for me.”
I think liberty training is absolutely invaluable to good training. The horse world still doesn’t embrace this idea, mainly because there is so much emphasis on control, and many people feel a lot less at control without a halter or bridle.
Many zoo trainers and exotic animal trainers do most of their training in large spaces at liberty and I think a lot can be learned from studying how people train other animals. I heard Steve Martin (an exotic trainer who does consulting work for zoos) speak several weeks ago. He discussed how one of most important ways we can build an animal’s confidence is by giving them the power to escape. He talked about training a young Rhino to walk on to a scale at liberty, using clicker training and targeting (which I wrote about a bit here: http://stalecheerios.com/blog/2009/03/orca-part-1-steve-martin/ )
the training process was incredibly stress-free. He showed a video and the animal was happy and engaged and stepped on to the scale because it wanted to. When it got uncomfortable, it was allowed to step off or move away, which helped build it’s confidence.
cheers,
Mary H.