Negative and Positive Leadership Behavior between Horses and Humans
May 20th, 2010 by Carolyn Resnick Method
Positive leadership behavior is using leadership that a horse would appreciate and would be willing to accept. Positive leadership behavior would be to ask and not to expect and to encourage if you are not getting what you want, and then, if you are not getting what you want, change the subject to something that would bring relaxation, trust and harmony to the horse. A good rule of thumb is to train in short windows of time with lots of pause at liberty or on a loose line.
As horse owners, we need to shape a horse’s behavior to fit in harmony with us because of practical reasons and keep their pecking order personalities social and respectful. We need to set an example for our horse in the kind of leadership that we would like him to offer us. This way, the horse learns to treat us exactly like we treat him in regards to leadership. This creates a 50/50 partnership, with the exception that we are the ultimate leaders of our horse because we are setting leadership by example. Captivity requires leadership.
Even very fearful horses can become pushy. At this time of Marilynne’s training, she has become pushy and when she pushes she feels safe and secure with me. So I allow her lots of that, so she can build more confidence around people. When I choose to stop her pushiness, even being very gentle, she becomes again very frightened when she must turn the leadership role back to me. She has learned in life that when humans lead they can become dangerous.
Remember that torture is not determined by our standards but by what the horse feels. As trainers and owners, we need to be able to read when this happens so we can adjust our leadership to work best for us and to be inviting. If you are being persistent and the horse is not willing, you are in danger of stepping into negative dominant behavior in your leadership.
That being said, I also must get Marilynne to experience her fears through pressuring her so she can see that nothing bad will happen; but I keep it to personal space issues only and very short sessions with lots of fun. For her, fun is sharing space and eating. I must allow her this fear. It is important not to edge my way around her fears because it can cause a horse to get worse. I put pressure on her in short windows of time that we share together, because it gives her a chance to see that she does not need to be fearful. By my not responding to her fears, I give her the chance to discover that they have no reason to exist. My students often times tiptoe around their fearful horses to much creating a horse that becomes even shyer.
Marilynne by my behavior learns that I cannot be controlled by her paranoia. As our relationship has grown, Marilynne has finally become a proper nuisance for me giving me the opportunity to enforce my leadership. Waiting for Marilynne to get comfortable, enough to be rude, lets me shape her behavior in a way that she can understand.
When I am feeding her grain, which took some time for me to get her to feel safe eating from my hand, I allow her to push me. She will try to push me out of her way to put her head into the bucket. I push back but I allow her to win. In these moments, she is not afraid. This is very important. She gets to experience her personal power and when I feel she is strong enough mentally, I ask her to back off and leave my personal space. I choose the time to ask her to leave when she has become excessively pushy.
I am very cautious however only to push her just enough to get her to leave. I approach her slowly on this matter. She has a tipping point that goes from being very pushy to freaking out, running away from me in sheer terror. I have to let her experience this.
Every time she returns I can see her becoming more comfortable with the interactions, we share. She is learning that my leadership has no monstrous behavior to follow.
Yesterday she was comfortable enough for me to lunge her in her paddock with a reed in my hand and even touch her body with it. She is frightened in this Ritual but not enough to lose control or to lose her connection with me. Second by second she is getting more comfortable.
A note to the class, I will be offering the film of me free lounging Maralyinne in her paddock, including clips of pushing me around to show how her pushing me causes her to feel safe.
On an earlier video, I speak of the Saying Hello Ritual that I am practicing with Marilynne, where she will not stand and allow me to walk up to her. She will either run away or walk up to me. Both of these reactions are a way for her to cope with intimacy. When she walks up to me, she feels her personal power, but when asked to stand and l walk up to her, she feels threatened. And that is where we are today.
This is a very different experience to the one I had with Lucero, the pushy little colt, I had during the last Insider Circle Class, so I hope you are learning a lot from the journey Marilynne and I are making together. Does any of it ring true for you?
Thank you all for your comments! I am glad you are enjoying Marilynne’s journey. Many of you have commented about the videos I speak of in many of my blog posts. To clarify, Marilynne’s journey is part of the curriculum for the Insiders Circle and the companion In A Box program. My students have exclusive access to Marilynne’s day-to-day progress as part of these programs. Marilynne’s journey with the Waterhole Rituals will be offered for sale in a few months to the public.
I would like to encourage everyone to take the next course that we will be offering in the late summer. I know you would really benefit from the guidance along with the DVDs that we will be releasing to the next class.
Till next week
Carolyn.
No related posts.
Hi Carolyn,
Just wanted to share a Leadership story with you. I have a German Shepherd Dog that had to wear one of those large white plastic cone shaped collars while an injury healed….My horses thought she was from outerspace when she was outside……especially after dark…The horses would race around snorting and very upset…..when they watched me walk up to her and send her back to the house, they were amazed. I could just feel their security return, and their gratitude that I was keeping them safe. I was a hero, and I now understand why. I will keep looking for more oportunities.
Thanks
Jan
Your post still surprises me every time. It’s so valuable to keep on staying on the right side; the horses’ side. Thanks Carolyn! tine
Hello Ms. Resnick,
I enjoyed your post and learned several principles that I can apply to my journey with Maia. Thank you!
I wanted to let you know about an absolutely amazing day I had with her today.
Some days I work with horses and it feels like training, like I am using horses instead of helping them, and I am stuck in arenas and using tack and doing things that seem pointless and I wonder, where is the Magic in all of this? I read a book like The Blue Sword or watch a movie like Lord of the Rings, and I think, could horsemanship ever be like that? Could being with my horse ever feel like a storybook, or is that naïve – is it longing something that is just an empty dream?
It’s not. There is more; there is Magic; the storybook world is not so far from our own. And I received a glimpse of it today.
When I went to Maia in the pasture, after sharing space, I decided to ride.
) and then to drive other horses away — never once to control her. She was forward and confident, yet in control and connected. We walked, halted, backed, trotted a bit, and even began turning, yet the most exciting was at the end. She is in love with a gelding and they started nickering at each other, but I was able to tell Maia to stop and stand, and she did. Then, I used my rope to drive away the gelding, and Maia was right there with me.
Although I had the rope around her neck, I had only used it to mount (a “mounting block”
It was absolutely wonderful – totally bareback, bridleless, tackless, in a huge idyllic hilly 40 acre pasture with nothing to stop or hinder her – not even trees – and she was happy to be mounted, ridden – away from the herd or back – turned, stopped, backed, and we even did something practical work in moving other horses away. And most incredibly, I felt absolutely safe. Although energetic, she was connected – I could stop her dead at any time and she had control over her emotions and body. I felt like I had stepped into a storybook, had gentled the wild horse, and had slipped on with no tack and was allowed to ride.
But it gets even better. After that, I simply sat sharing space for about 15 minutes, then had to leave. I went up to Maia one last time to say goodbye and scratched her for a bit. When I turned to leave, she came with me. And then, she walked with me… all the way back to the gate. We had been near the end of the pasture, and she walked with me, right with me, all the way back, and when I went out the gate, she tried to follow. It was utterly amazing.
I had no treats. I did not force but I did not tiptoe around her, either. It was just her, being her, and me, being me.
I desired connection and I found out that she did, too.
Thank you so much for helping guide me along this journey,
Hannah
Dear Carolyn;
I love to sit with my horse and watch her eat. She no longer bullies me. She watches me constantly and she takes the time to walk over to me every now and then. I think this is to see if I am paying attention to her. She does pretty good with the first two UEs but we are still working on them.
My problem: I have no pasture for her and no space large enough to let her roam where she can get away from me if she chooses. She has gotten away from me a couple of times and runs down a fairly busy road. I live way out in the country so its not like a freeway, but we do have a lot of logging trucks. She gets bored. When she asks to put her halter on, I comply and I groom her and do the first UE. Then she will go back to eating her hay and I go back to my chair.
After awhile she will either lay down and I just sit on her and get off, or she will ask to play ball.
The last few days, she hasn’t asked to play and she started stall walking and licking the wood in her stall.
I did something real stupid. I put her in the next stall as the ground was very wet and we’ve been having a time with thrush. Well I think she got stung by a wasp that I had missed and she sqeeled and barreled through the stall door cutting a good size punture wound in her hind leg. She has stitches and the vet gave me some antibiotics to give her. I had to cut her rations so she would eat her meds. I tried everything the vet said to get her to take them with molasses but nothing worked. She eats it with peanut butter but only if she is very hungry. She was spitting out her food and not eating and even turning her food bucket upside down so I took her food away until she asked for it back. I would wait until she at least attempted to clean up what she had dropped on the ground but I always give it back.
Please help me. I want her to be happy and not pick up these bad habits. I don’t have the money to rent a pasture and I don’t know anyone because I just moved here. I guess I am between a rock and a hard place, but it hurts to see her so sad.
She only licks as far as I know when I am not there. She will start licking if she thinks I am leaving her, but when I sit down she eats her hay, but as soon as I go to leave again, she licks. She even licks me.
Do I spend too much time with her? I try to spend at least 4 hours with her each day, but usually it is between 6 to 8 hours per day. On weekends its usually only about 2 hours. I don’t push her to do anything, unless she asks first. I just love being there with her.
I know you are very busy but any advice at this point would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Dear Carolyn,
As always, so much to ponder.
“Remember that torture is not determined by our standards but by what the horse feels. As trainers and owners, we need to be able to read when this happens so we can adjust our leadership to work best for us and to be inviting. If you are being persistent and the horse is not willing, you are in danger of stepping into negative dominant behavior in your leadership.”
So easy to do even without thinking sometimes. But thinking in a new way is what this is all about. I’m so grateful to be here.
Thank you!
Regina
Reporting about a neat experience this morning Sharing Territory with horse who has never done it before. I was resolved to play by the book with him and focus all my energy on reading my magazine or thinking pleasant thoughts and specifically not thinking about the horse. When I let him loose in the paddock, he walked over to a patch of nice grass and started grazing. I walked the other way and sat on the mounting block. I started to read, but the journal did not hold my interest. I’m not much into meditation, but it was a beautiful morning and I needed something to keep me from reacting to the fact that I had been sitting there for a long time and the horse had not even glanced in my direction. I’m not used to my horses ignoring me and secretly was a bit miffed. So I decided to fight my mild pique by recalling as many details as possible about specific places in my past where I had felt totally at peace with the world. But before I started, I could not resist the impulse to Do Something, I just couldn’t sit still any more. I decided to sneak in one tiny Hello. I walked towards the horse and he looked up when I was about 50 paces away and started walking to me as I walked to him. He had both eyes and ears focused on me and looked/felt pleased to see me. I gave him a cookie, petted him until he started grazing again, then walked back to my seat, feeling mollified by the pleasant feeling the horse had given me when I approached him. I sat back down on the mounting block and took my mind to a sweet grassy meadow long ago and far away. As I said, I’m not much on meditation. As I was trying to remember all the different wildflowers in the grass that day, I drifted off to sleep. When I awoke, the horse was standing over me, one hind leg cocked and his eyes and lower lip drooping, obviously settled in for the duration. I have no idea how long he had been there — he never touched me. When I got up, he followed me companionably to the gate, so I did not bother putting on his halter. I opened the gate and he walked with me at liberty to my car, where I tacked him up. Then we had one of the best training sessions I’ve ever had with this horse.
Hey Carolyn, since the video is having some issues playing, requesting MORE videos of you and Marilynn! What a cutie, and love watching how you use magnectic attraction, perfectly balanced with a little push to help her find her confidence.
Just checking in
Dear Kerrie # 16
The horse you brought into my wintertime program about the Uberstreichen Exercises would require that we work together face to face, because of the extreme skill necessary to help him with his problems. This is why my online programs require a horse that has a sense of well-being, is easy to read, feels safe and has a natural willingness to cooperate.
It is very difficult to learn a new method –especially my new method, because it is based on an entirely new set of rules for communicating with horses. To learn my method requires first to focus on learning a method, not on solving problems. After the method is completely understood, you can then take on bigger challenges.
2010 #3
I found them, but #3 doesn’t seem to work all the way for me. ???
This is ringing true for me in a way in which I think was misunderstood.
I felt I was over-pushing Capricho by trying to grasp the halter with the first UE. The reason is that seven months ago he almost killed himself getting his halter snagged on the bottom rail of a corral. He had pulled the rope over the top of the gate, and when he struggled to get his halter free, he pulled on the rope which pulled the gate shut on his throat. As he began to suffocate, he fell to his knees and hung by his halter. He bit his tongue and cheek so badly he also had to have stitches. The story is much worse than this, even.
But when I held his halter, his body would just go rigid. He would do what I requested, following my hands, but with sheer terror in his eyes. This is why I did not persist doing that ritual.
I do it with just hands and he does everything. But I think I need to give him time before reinforcing his trauma, at almost getting killed by being hung in his halter.
Does that make sense?
checking in – reading
Insiders Circle
Your timing is impeccable! Exactly something I was struggling with this last couple days.
Thank you!
Carolyn:
When you said… “Remember that torture is not determined by our standards but by what the horse feels. As trainers and owners, we need to be able to read when this happens so we can adjust our leadership to work best for us and to be inviting. If you are being persistent and the horse is not willing, you are in danger of stepping into negative dominant behavior in your leadership.”
And then Deborah said: “We can never mount a horse again, without her permission. Knowing what I know now, to do so is nothing short of rape.”
…I remembered what a trainer that I know, who learned from Ray Hunt, teaches to his students:
“What is the difference between rape and rapture?…..Permission.”
Many of us have horses with past experiences we cannot ever know. Because they are prey species, they know to hide their weaknesses and to give full expression to their fears. These are the “problem” horses that get the most abuse from people who insist you have to “show him who’s boss” and “don’t let her get away with ” unruly behavior or “she’s won.” This sets up the entire relationship as a fight for dominance. And as you have also taught us, horses will always resist dominance, until they are forced to submit.
These lessons have changed my approach to horses forever. Your blog posts and videos are crucially important for guiding my on-the-ground behavior with my own horses. To find the difference between dominance and leadership. To see the results in horses whose emotional needs are honored. Thank you thank you thank you.
Dear Carolyn, just want to say thank you so much.
It is all in all a very simple truth you share with us. But as simple as it is, how an abused little horse feels, or a child or young person and that there must be endless patience and empathy and knowledge how to guide to give more self confidence and set the rules right- practically bring a whole new behaviour into play, a deep healing… This needs so much skill and experience and knowledge and trust and love! I am very greatful for you sharing that with us! I appreciate all the details and steps it takes to really understand better how to approach the horse in this situation and how to understand better and put in reality what I know in my heart.
Checking in, IC member
You know it occurs to me that the reason your journey with Marilyn is so useful to all of us, in all our situations, is that these very very fine lines either side of the ‘tipping point’ are very subtle and make the difference between smooth communication and jerky or rough communication (which therefore is not the communication we intended anyway). The fact that Marilyn’s reactions are so violent (i.e. obvious) is helpful to us because while your eye – and inner eyes! – can see the subtlest of reactions I certainly cannot as yet. So seeing Marilyn is ‘only’ seeing the ‘magnifying glass’ image of my horse’s reactions when I’m clumsy (or slow, or too full-on or whatever). So much of what goes on with a less scared and less over-reactive horse just whizzes past me, I just miss it, whereas with Marilyn I get to see the same thing but as if in slo-mo and under a microscope! So it was a brilliant idea to use Marilyn in this context!
thanks so much
susan
Hullo Carolyn
Checking in – I always read your blogs.
Your last two blogs about
Marilynne have opened up a new perspective for me. The way you approach each individual horse is unique. One has to be very elastic and
sensitive and highly intelligent to understand
what is best for the horse. Your method does provide
the tools but to be really skilled perception is key
to being creative. I hope that your work
with this horse will be available because
I really think we can learn so much from
watching you work with horses who have
mental and emotional wounds. Thank you
sharing these stories
It all rings true. The way you express it makes it flow right through the eye and straight into the imagination.
It is such a fine line between suggesting and leading and turning into the predator.
Dear Carolyn,
Wonderful post today about the mare Marilynne. I never thought about leadership behavior in positive and negative terms. I took a canine agility class with my young dog. He was frightened of the dark tube obstacle. The trainer came up to assist me when my dog was resistenting intently not wanting to go inside the tube. She grabbed my mini schnauzer and physically tossed him in the dark tube, then blocked the entry so he had to go the other way to get out of the tube. She stated, “Now that’s leadership”. I was shocked at the moment, because my dog had been tramatized.
My Arabian gelding has difficulty going past a certain area at our stable. I feel he doesn’t have the confidence or trust in me, as he does in my wonderful, partnership trainer (I should say counselor). My gelding’s experience aat this spooky location is not an enjoyable one when he is with me, as we hand walk to this area. I’m going to change my tactic and hand walk with another horse that is relaxed and calm, or another personn, to this place to bring support to the session that will be more positive. I don’t want my leadership behavior to be negative and dominant.
Thank you for such informative and great advice regardng Marilynne. Looking forward to seeing her video.
Cheers, Barbara and Monie
birroyal@aol.com
Where do I find this video of you and Marilynne? I have a gelding that was badly abused and he could profit from this approach. I’d really like to see it.
Not only does your account of your journey with Marilynne ring true, but its helpfulness to us students transcends individual characteristics this troubled mare and applies, to some extent, to all students of your program, human and equine. What I get most from reading your descriptions of your training experiences and watching those excellent videos is a template for trying to improve my feel and judgment so that my porridge turns out neither too hot nor too cool, but like Goldilocks’, just right. I think experience, good instruction and last but not least natural aptitude, are the best way to achieve good judgment in just about anything you try to learn.
Reading about and seeing your progress with this extreme horse, it is clear that you are very aware of where you are taking Marilynne, even as you create opportunities for her to develop on her own terms and allow her to feel that much of what you do together is her idea. Like any artist who is also a great teacher, you seem able to create in your students, human and equine, the confidence to let their art flow in their own image of it.
Dear Carolyn,
what speaks to me in particular: you not letting yourself be controlled by her paranoia, and how this will eventually benefit Marilynne. This is about not being co-dependent, which is the basis of a true relationship. Another aspect of the same thing is not paying attention to her negative behavior. All this is about developing a real relationship based on what you and she are now in the present.
Anyway, I was wondering whether the videos of your work with Marilynne will be available only to the current Insider Circle?
All the best,
Christian
Does this ring true? More than you know. I’m still learning so much about horse behavior, and my part in all this. I’m better, and I could spend another 50 years learning and never learn everything. I think you are on the threshold of something great, and I hope this extends to all species some day. A dialog based on specific species behavior, kindness, understanding and compassion. Ceaser Millan, who started his career training horses, has opened our eyes to canine behavior and communication. He doesn’t come from the human perspective, he embodies the dog, just as you embody the horse.
To know these truths is to become accountable. We can no longer blame the horse for her fear. We can no longer call a horse lazy, or aggressive. We can never mount a horse again, without her permission. Knowing what I know now, to do so is nothing short of rape.
I owe my horses the time it takes to do this right. It’s not like we don’t know how. Here it is. Right here. You’d think all those performance trainers would see the difference between obedience and exuberance. Between robotic surrender and joy in the task. Can you imagine a reining horse who actually loves to chase cows, loves his human chasing cows with him and simply cannot wait until the next time? “Better hold on human, we’re gonna chase some cows!”
I want this. Like Pat Parelli says, when you take off that rope, what you get is the truth. Like Carolyn Resnick says, you don’t need a rope, you only need the truth.
Yes,
This rings true, the line between ” Rude Behavior” being”pushy” and the ” I am important” behavior and respect vs fear based behavior.
Having the difference between Lucero and Marilyn is a great tool in leading us through the leadership role. The significant differences in Tip toeing around fear based horse behavior, and how we shape the behavior vs avoiding the behavior all together.
Once again, articulate and well stated. Thank you for that significant difference in behavior and leading. I look forward to viewing the videos’
Celia
Thank You for this wonderful post! It’s a beautiful description of becoming the kind of leader that inspires a horse to do great things out of heart and desire! I was trying to explain this idea to a friend earlier this week, and the examples you give make it so clear!
It’s great to follow you on your journey with Marilynne, especially because she has such a small borderline between two extremes of behavior. I find it very interesting how you handle that, so I’m looking forward to the new video’s you speak of
!