Panadero’s Dance
May 12th, 2009 by Carolyn
Hi. I really liked the video that Stina put up on YouTube of Panadero and me. She was visiting me for some further instruction on how to proceed with her own horses using the Waterhole Rituals. I am sharing it with you because it gives me the opportunity to explain the proper approach on how to move forward in training a horse at liberty once a clear foundation has been created.
If you cannot watch this version where you are, try the one at the bottom of the post
To keep Panadero’s performance in balance and our connection at its best, I vary his daily routines with slow work and fast work to maintain the connection and his interest. In this video, my focus is to working him with fast interactions.
I was suggesting that Stina could work her horses with a little more energy because they have acclimated and bonded with her quite well. I suggest to my students to first start liberty training using the Waterhole Rituals slowly with lots of pauses and short sessions. I will then ask the horse to work with me a little faster as this is what gives me a partnership like the one between the boy and his horse in the movie the “Black Stallion”.
After you have a foundation of slow work like you see in Alessandra’s You Tube, you can then begin to work in faster gaits. By varying the speed, you maintain your leadership, position and the attitude of the horse to be well rounded and responsive. Fast work creates spirit and ego. Once a horse enjoys your leadership, working a horse fast will cause the horse to respond like a dance partner in a very dramatic way with even more cooperation and ability to perform.
My favorite work is fast but I keep the balance so that Panadero, for example, stays relaxed. Too much fast work can produce a horse that is addicted to fast work and will not listen or want to work slow and vice versa. So by varying the speed, I can control Panadero when I need him to be slow and speed him up when I need him to be spirited.
On the days the horse feels quiet, I usually focus on working him fast to wake him up and to achieve more willingness. If a horse feels like a fireball, I then choose to work him on slow activities to keep him in control. Choosing the opposite energy a horse offers for the day keeps the magnetic connection resonating between us in a natural way and this way the horse becomes increasingly dependable.
I never sacrifice my horse to show someone that he can dance with me like a fireball if he is out of control with a fireball attitude on that day, it would be better to focus on slow tempo interactions.
I will tell you more on Thursday how working your horse at different tempos can create the connection and partnership you want to advance to.
Till then…
Carolyn
P.S. Breaking news! We have just agreed the start date of the new Waterhole Rituals Insider Circle Program – Sunday 24th and Monday 25th May!!
Both Programs are full but you can still get the Waterhole Rituals ‘In a Box’ Program and join in with us on our journey through the 7 Waterhole Rituals. Mark asked me to let you know that the ‘Box’ version will not be available once the main Programs start and to grab one whilst you can on the Coaching Programs page
No related posts.
came pretty close to flooding the bathroom while watching this. I got lost in the experience and remembered as it concluded, I left the bath running. It was close.
Carolyn, I love how you dance with your horse, and better yet, how he dances with you. And thank you for providing the path to realize this journey for myself. If anyone is thinking about joining the water rituals insider circle when it comes around again….do. Just trust me.
Hi Carolyn,
I have read your book and watched both of your DVD’s and love it very much.
I just started the other day with your first ritual, and I must say it is really nice to do nothing with my horse instead of always doing something. Plus I’m getting a lot of reading done. I plan on doing this first ritual for a month even though I have seen results already from her I just want to give both of us this time together.I look forward to starting the 2nd ritaul but I am in no hurry as I find time is endless.
Thank you so much and look forward in seeing more of your work in the future.
Irene
Hi Carolyn,
thank you for your comment. I get some better vieuw by this little conversation.
i love to give your theories a place in mine daily rituals. i think they can fixed perfect together.
each day i learn more
Started to read the programm.
thank you again
Dear Inge,
Following the ball the horse is wanting to push the ball forward, he must slow down and adjust his balance. If following exercises does the same thing then that is good. I am not saying there is anything wrong with them.
I am sorry that I can not give more time on this subject. I suggestion to take what I offer that makes sense and though the rest out.
If you like the way you train your horse with following exercies do not let me cause you to dought what you are doing. I am here only to add when I can help someone to have a better conntion when they can easily see the benifits with out having to change their theroies. I really do not teach theory though some times I do talk about it.
Hope this is of help,
Carolyn
what do you mean by this?
I usually stay away from following exercises with a horse when I can ( it takes the quality of the gates out of the horse- the horse looses a certian amount of animation from focusing on following something.) I try to stay to send, draw, pause and the magnetic connection.
i think i can not follow you???
Why would a horse looses animation by following something??
What is the difference between for example seen on the latest video your horse is in a kind of play run from and towards you.
and this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZl49Z9Fr-k
Both i mean as an example, not to hurt someone.
just the way of movements of the horse.
are both horses moving different?
following a plasticbag is in my eyes near the same as a ball.
it is a “thing” you can use to play with your horse.
tho i see it this way.
If you specialised more in this, it can help to train your horse in all kind of exercises. streching, head up or down, fast move, slow move, more collected.
And keep you at a save distance.
can you explain me why you think it is not what you like and why?
i am very interested, it give me more different looks. (if i say it in the right englishwords)
P.S. I was talking about the compsoser of the music in the Waterhole rituals dvd, not the recorded music on Stina’s lovely youtube clips…just in case i confused anyone!
SAFTY TIP -A big tiip for safty don’t thing a horse will not kick you because of the bond or that you can depend on your horses kindness and care taking ability because it is natural for horses to run into one another and to bump a horse they are bonded to on purpose to move a horse out of their way and to kick each other and they are also are great at making misjudgments by running into each other by accitent, They can even step on their own foals also by accident.
Generaly rule keep you horse a safe distance if he is excited and his body shows stifness or he is focused on something else beside you.
It is always better to error on the side of caution.
Thank you Carolyn, that sounds like a brillient idea, it’s just that wonderful creativity that you offer that makes all the difference (especially when we are trying to break our own conditioning towards horse sense…0
A note on Improvisation:
The spanish music used to dance with Panadero is freely improvised and not ‘taken off the shelf’ as my dad would say (he works in muic and free improvisation – from chaos comes the dance), This illustrates beautifully the art that is evident in your horsemanship – especially the ‘fast work’. By improvising one finds natural connections in the music and the dance, free pace, gates, and spirit are mediated through the music, and ofcourse the leader….wonderful stuff, and certainly a language i can understand…phew! What a great, revealing and awsum journey we are all on!!
Becky
Carolyn,
Thank you for the safety tips. It is good to know that one always needs to be careful. We have a TB that is very kind but can rocket across a field close to dinner time and possibly misjudge his distance, my husband has learned to watch for bursts of joy on cool evenings and wait outside the field for him to quiet down then bring him in for supper. I no longer put him in with our elderly gelding because at 29 he is too slow and might be injured. The 29 year old also seems to prefer it that way and keeps happy company with our older mare instead.
Thank you Carolyn for answering. Now I know where to go. Your blog is always food for thought and I always learn a lot here.
inge,
I want my horses to come to me at a run when they are seasoned in the gates of walk trot and canter. In the beging I build the come up button to be some what out of control to keep the inthusasm of the horse I am working with. If my horse becomes out of control I know that I can send him off and out and let him try again to come up and halt at my side. Once the horse gets the idea I then can get a better contol with out having to crouch down to keep my space in tact. Panadero has the ability to be controled in a come up using all gates in a single approach. Once I had this one him I could now work on him running to me.
The thing to remember is you need to train each horse the way of his own nature which will change your approach for horse to horse.
I usually stay away from following exercises with a horse when I can ( it takes the quality of the gates out of the horse- the horse looses a certian amount of animation from focusing on following something.) I try to stay to send, draw, pause and the magnetic connection.
Panadero’s self carrage is quite nice and if I taught him to follow in the begining he would lose his expersion though the gates.
Inge, as you thought when I am writing to you I am also writing to everyone else that reads my letter to you.
I hope what I am offering you is so food for thought for you and for others.
Hi Carolyn,
you meant what i thought, specialy now more people have write their expiriences.
My riding horse never galoping to me, always in a slow trot.
My shetty can do a nice gallop but not a fast one, not one out of control. They always stop far before me and walk the latest part.
In the arena, if they have a “quick” day they run away from me and jump, kick, bolt or whatever far away. They slow down and come nice and quiet back.
I never have had a day that they fully runs towards me and that i have to think am i save?
But i understand fully what you mean.
And i think you are absolutly right.
For people those who have problems to slow the horses down. Ask a movement which is a bit more complicated, something were they have to think about how to do it.
for example a step forward then a spanish walk step and a normal step forward. And that twice.
Then change from leg and do the same.
or make a little circle start the horse on the outside and change from direction so you make a 8. The horse come at the inside.
you have to stay between his shoulder and head.
Ask your horse to follow your whip.
You can place a plastic or something like that at the end.
So they can follow the end of the whip.
(as a target)
This helps you to make clear which direction you wanna have your horse and keep yourself at a save distance if you play this for the first time.
Later on you don’t need the whip anymore and can move your horse with bodylanguage.
the horse have to think about what you aks for so that will slow down his speed. If he goes still to fast, make a halt in different places. By not moving your feet. The horse have to stand still if you are standing still.
My horse likes to play difficult games.
The more complicated the more attention i get.
it is so nice to read all different expirencis
Dear Becky,
Put hay down in clumps all over and follow your horse around and once in a while as your horse to move forward to a new spot. This is a good way to get you started.
Hope this is of help.
A reed has a diffrent affect than a whip that is why I use one. I have reeds and I sell them but shipping them is two coastly for most people. I buy them at Pier One or Michael’s. They are used for decoration. You might pick one up there. Reeds are flexable and make great sounds and can take up alot of space around a horse in a non aggresive manner and still get the point across. You can increase your intent by how fast you swish it.
When I need something with more sound like when I want to call a horse up from a far distance I go to a small whip.
For horses that are concerned about something in my hand I know the bond needs more work. If the bond is strong enough a horse will generally not be afraid of what you have in your hand. If he is still afraid then I use the size reed that would not scare him that he would also respect.
It is up to everyone to make their own adjustments to suit their needs. As the training becomes more advanced I can use a whip with out a horse feelling he needs to protect him self from it.
a normal whip will have the same effect, right, so you don’t need to look for a reed, I guess.
That was a great video, and the way Panadero was running at top speeds was like watching my own horse run. She runs like that too. She will often run up to me when she sees me walking or I’m leaving her, and I’ve up to this point always used my whip to give a warning signal that she cannot come too close at that speed. I can identify a bit with Nicole’s problem with her arabian although I don’t have the exact same problem, but sometimes when I’ve tried leading from behind on my horse she has ran off like a maniac so fast that all I see is dust, and following her at a slow gate has been rather hard because she’ll run back and forth zigzagging and she sure can run. But then she doesn’t seem to be doing it out of fear, because she’ll always turn to me and come to me. I think though that it might have some to do with the fact that I was using the longing whip, because it seems to make her brain turn off and just go into run mode, because that’s what it’s meant for her her whole life I think. Last time I walked her from behind I used a whip and that I think worked better. I was careful with how I asked her to go forward and I didn’t ask for much, just a little and I was happy. I was really wondering though, where can I get a hold of a reed? I keep seing and hearing about this reed but I don’t know where to find one.
This was an awesome vido of Carolyn and Pandero. I hope to see some of this energy with my two horses and spirit. My two horses will come to me at a walk to greet me, but never a trot or a run. They will trot beside me when we are doing a task, and lope beside me at liberty. Kid tends to do his dominant attitude and puts his ears back when he trots beside me. Cannon is more timid, but sometimes will shake his head in a dominant manner, if I push him to move to a new gait. I hope to gain partners that become even more willing than they are currently.
Hi Carolyn!
Your video is really beautiful!!!!!!! WOW
I saw it earlier this week and have watched it multiple times.
Thanks for the great article! I really like the topic and am also looking forward to the one on Thursday! It helps a lot with my work with my horse right now.
One thing I liked in your article was about working a horse faster when he seems quieter, to wake him up. Fast work is definitely my favorite. I sometimes wondered if I should just do slow work when my horse is feeling lazy (which is not uncommon during the hot, humid summers where I live). But after I started using your Method with my horse, I have noticed (especially when I start the session with leading from behind) that doing fast work when he is a little lazy, creates much better partnership with my horse.
I have also noticed that crouching down like that works very well at making sure my horse will stop and respect my space when he is galloping to me. In the winter, we did a lot of high energy play and he would often gallop straight to me at full speed. I would always make sure I had my whip, and I would crouch down like that to get him to stop on time.
-Nicole H
Helen,
Panadero can not want to stop sometimes when he gets wound up. He can want to get too close to me at high speeds. When I get down I gain more control and respect that slows his approach. I feel some times he would run through me.
He is very playfull and would no want to hurt me but he still he gets carried away and if I could not control his full out run he might try to run though me.
People trust their horses too much and belive that a horse would stop. A horse can also get to cloose and scar himself and spin and kick so when they are traveling to me at high spends I direct the horse to keep his distance untill the horses energy levels off. When I crouch down the horse reads that I will not allow him to move me and I will dirve him away if he gets too close.
P.S. After i have done some sharing space, i think i’ll need a phone consultation, i really want to do this, i am simply passionately obsessed now as i have never had such an amazing bond with a horse, and i am only right at the beginning of the journey…thank you so much for the inspiration!
Lovely video…
I just got the waterhole rituals dvd today and was in tears – good tears obviously! I was also touched by watching the group participents, the way they were being shown how to meet eachother (one the horse, the other the horse lesader). I just thought how far horse sense stretches into our own human conciousness, realigns us with something long forgotten in our daily relations, not just with horses, but between ourselves.
On the slow fast note, i have a horse that is extremely nervous and reacts fast, therefore i have been doing lots of slow work wioth him. Today i realised though that i have been moving on too fast and i now need to start right back at number 1, sharing space. When i have done leading from behind, he bolts away from me, and although when i back off he comes back, i can see we are still missing a basic connection. Any tips would be greatfully recieved.
This was really nice Carol. Finally I was able to see it with the link at the bottom of the letter – the top one didn’t work for me. I notice you crouching down when he is a bit away running toward you – is this to increase the power of the STOP! when you pop up or is it calling him to come to you?
I so enjoyed the video ,Carolyn
!
I love that connection that you have w/ Panadero.
I truly understand starting out slow in Liberty w/ a horse & and making sure the connection & respect are there before going on to faster work. I’ve been playing more slowly w/ my Friesian…we do play ball together ..he loves it and will kick it all around following it & will also kick it to me.. He even enjoys doing it under saddle . Also he likes to mirror me by doing Spanish walk. The fastest I’ve played at Liberty w/ him is trot w/me ..but I make sure that he is not trailing behind me w/ bad ears ever…I place myself at a safe distance at the poll region and I give energy to him to start a small trot & I bring my energy up and trot w/him , only for a very short distant …as Friesian trots are BIG & I don’t want him trotting too fast that I can’t keep up…but I do not know if this is good to do or not?? I’m am so excited to be starting this program w/ you & everyone in the group…I have a lot to learn.
The video is absolutely beautiful. It’s a connection I keep in the front of my mind every time I interact with my horses.
I do have a question, however. I have a very very very lazy Arabian that gets very offended when asked to move quickly. He decides at that point to run around like a maniac and react like you had tried to hurt him. Yet when you slow it down again he goes back to the docile and loving animal he can be. So when he is being lazy I struggle to create that fast paced energy without sending him off the deep end. Other people I’ve talked to talk about being assertive but not forcing the issue. If he doesn’t offer the fast pace, slow it down even more. The problem with that is that he enjoys it. He’d rather do the super slow work than the faster activities. So how do I go about getting the faster pace without making him “crazy” or offending him? That is my constant struggle. Any insight would be so very valuable to me.
So interesting and your horse is so beautiful.
I have a 3 year old Lusitano mare who is very dominant. I am struggling with her ATM as her energy rises so quickly and she does not like to be challenged. I gently asked her to lower her head (which she has done nice and softly numerous times). The last few times she threatens to rear with the slightest pressure. She can also bite if she does not want to do something although she is not really biting, more nipping with lots of faces inbetween. I am quite new to your work but your video reminds me of mine except I am standing there thinking mine will hurt me. If you raise your energy towards her she does not respond much. Any advice for working with horses like this?
Magnificent! I love love love watching this. We are striving hard here to do much the same, although we are very western out here
The other day my better half Wade went roping and took his lil mare Olga, who has this same attachment/bond to him. He had to get off her to turn a calf around in the chute and something spooked her. She took off and made a lap around the arena. Wade’s roping partner said “You’re going to have to go catch your horse” and Wade said “Just watch”. He hollered OLGA and she came running from the far end. He snapped his fingers and pointed her towards the box. She put herself right back where she was supposed to be and he stepped back on. His partner was impressed to say the least, but it’s something we’ve come to expect from our personal horses. It sure is nice to have that bond.
We learn so much from you Carolyn, and especially videos like this. I love being able to come here and learn more.
Carolyn,
I agree with you that one should start out slow with their horse. I have been working at liberty with my horse for about 6 years and I do understand him thoroughly. I am one of the most careful people I know when working with my horse because I have taken the time to get to know him. I think 6 years is quite a long time to learn about each other. I have a pretty unusual horse and I know it. How I know it is that when I have the opportunity to play with other horses I realize they aren’t as gentle as my horse so I am very cautious with them.
So, since I am not a beginner at this, I think what I am doing is fine. Maybe you are speaking to the people who are just starting at this, I’m not sure.
I just wanted to share my personal experience here so that people can know what is possible by regular people like myself.
Regards,
Pam
Remember everyone be careful to remember that may times when after a horse has been down that when they get up they like to kick and they could kick you if you are cose.
Pam ,
I just call you inge. Check the letter I addresed to inge and their is my response to your letter.
I see two joyful beings fully present with each other.
Please tell Stina that her tapes show a beautiful respect for life and the souls of others, they have added to my vision of what can be achieved with your methods and good people.
Inga,
I thing Mark is going to put a page for the inner circle people to be able to view each other and for me to put videos back to you in the program so I can instruct you in this way. I always start out slow with a horse, I do not want to get myself hurt so I suggest people when doing any program in the begining to test the waters and to get very clear about personal space regarding the horse’s and yours.
In the begining you have little language in common and you really do not know who your horse is really.
I want everone to be carefull. When a horse rears a horse can become aggresive in an instent especialy when he does not know the ropes and feels responsible for keeping polite behavior.
wow pam, i am jealous
sounds wonderfull.
I can do that with one pony of me the other not. i am trying to learn him to lay down on command.
i try that when he roll by himself and say each time the same words.
Last time he lay down and stay there, i give him lots of cookies to reward him.
so i hope hfe will remember this the next time.
so i can do the same as you.
hi, enjoyed the fast & slow info I changed my email. thanks dmc
Beautiful ! I love his energy.
However, it’s a pity I couldn’t see te first film?
Apparently other countries have no access?
I am so glad you brought up the subject of working a horse fast and slow. Just last week I had decided that my horse is too comfortable being close to me and working slowly- so it would be time for him to get more energized while we play. So, for the first time in ages I decided to really send him away with the whip (even cracking it a bit to wake him up and help him realize what I wanted). He galloped around the arena pretty fast for awhile then he decided to roll around in the sand. Suddenly, it just came to me to walk up to him and see if I could get him to stay laying down while I sat down next to him, and he did!! This was the first time ever that he let me do this and there were two horses running around wildly in the arena right next to us. He didn’t even care about getting back up and let me pet him all over while we sat there. He likes to lay down with his legs straight in fornt of him like a dog does and that is how he sat while we hung out together. I could have sat on his back if I wanted to but decided against it. It was quite amazing to me and one of the nicest moments I have ever experienced with my horse or any horse.
Regards,
Pam
I have a couple of questions I hope you may be able to help with. Although I havn’t been able to afford your book or DVD I have gleaned what I can from your site and have been amazed at how well my relationship has developed with my boy Del. I thought it was pretty good before but now it is even better. However, the problem I have now is getting him to move, he seems so chilled out when I am with him he almost falls asleep! Infact he does sometimes when we just have down time! It is the same when I get on him, I am trying to slowly get him back into work (recovering from tendon injury) but he wont move yet when someone else rode him he went no problem, he is supposed to be forward going! When I got on him afterwards he walked at snails pace again. I have discovered he has an issue with headshaking a pollen allergy I suspect and last time I got on him it was sunny and all he wanted to do was rub his nose on the stirrups so walked a few snail paces and got off. Incidentally a nose net makes him far worse. Second thing is although the trust is getting great he can switch if I try to do some things, for instance wanting to try vaseline around his nostrils is a problem, when no sight of anything I can rub them inside and out and he loves it but as soon as I get the pot out rub it in my hands to warm it up I can’t get near his nose. Have let him sniff pot and my hands to no avail. Same with grooming, can rub him all over but as soon as a brush appears he walks backwards I do a lot off approach and retreat every time and sometimes he seems to really enjoy it once we get started. Any thoughts please, I feel kind of stuck now and don’t know where to go from here.
Hi
i enjoy the video very much. He is very playfull.
I play also ballgames with my pony’s. It is so nice to do.
Sadly i do not have a video with our games.
i have to ask someone who can film.
but i have some pics of my pony’s playing with the ball.
i can try to make a youtube movie with pics. So you can see it.
You write when you start with the rituals do it slowly. Why? is that for your own savety? if the horse rears and you are not quick enough? or maybe he doesn’t respect your private area near you?
My both pony’s aren’t that fast, they do all things slowly. i have to make all kind of things to make them a little bit faster. So that “tip” is not for us that important. tho i have learned them what my private area is and what theirs. That i will respect them if they does respect mine.
And it worked quiet well.
I think you have for that a good point always be care of yourself.
And an other question could you make a part were we can put some pics of us and our horses? So we know who is behind the name?
That can make some things clear if we can see someone when he of she write something or during the calls we know how he or she looks like.
Is that a good idea??
Just a thought…..