Sending a horse away
Feb 17th, 2009 by Carolyn Resnick Method
To download the MP3 version, right click this link and then select Save Target As.. or Save Link As
Hello. Before I get on to today’s post, I am delighted to announce that my book Naked Liberty is now available on CD. For those of you who are technically challenged, like me, this will probably come as a great relief! The book is read by my good friend, Liz Mitten Ryan, and she has done a wonderful job of bringing my childhood experiences to life. You can get it by clicking here, Naked Liberty on CD. I hope you enjoy it.
Today, I want to address a problem that people are having sending a horse away from them at liberty. Many people have expressed concern that driving a horse away from them will hurt the trust and bond. I can understand this point of view because of the struggle it might take in their mind to teach a horse to leave you when he does not want to go.
*** To read the rest of this post, get Carolyn’s Blog Collection Volume 1 ***
Click the image above for more details
No related posts.
Dear Carolyn,
I haven’t been on your blog for a little while — I was getting so frustrated because everyone seems to have such great relationships with their horses, and their horses are responding so well and I was feeling like, “What is wrong with me that my horse and I can’t have/do this????” A few days ago we got another horse for my daughter, a 17 year old Morab gelding, and there is such an incredible difference in attitude between him and my Haflinger mare. He is bigger than her, but EASY to be around. My friend says that the Haflinger is a horse that wants to be the leader, but the gelding is a horse that wants a leader. Surprisingly, because he is a bit of a ‘fraidy cat”, he has become the lead horse of the little herd. It has been interesting to watch the herd dynamics shift with his arrival.
But on to the real reason for my post. Today I read what you wrote, “It is generally caused by desensitizing the horse to movements around their personal space and this creates a horse that will not respond to your body language and your intent. The horse becomes completely non observant.” Bingo. My horse does not care where I am around her, or what I do. Even the waterhole rituals, unless I am doing something terribly wrong, don’t seem to help. She won’t acknowledge my presence. I can wave my “reed” to no avail. (oh, that’s a funny story — the first time I was going to try using a “reed” it was actually a cat tail stalk……I put out my bucket on which to sit, had my book in hand, and placed the stalk next to me. My horse left her hay to come investigate me and I was thrilled at her arrival…..until I heard her crunching on the cat tail! So much for me and that was the end of my “reed”!!) Anyway, back to the present. The first time I tried to move her off her food, she went….but the next day, she just stood there. I went around her side, clucking, all the way to her back and when i got there and waved the reed, she simply shifted her behind over so that she was sideways to me, her head never really leaving her food. It is not that she is hungry either. So, even though she may be watching me (kind of and only sometimes) she never stops eating. We’ve spent hours and hours hanging out…..so we definitely have some kind of relationship — it just isn’t a mutually satisfying one! Even with all the snow on the ground, she won’t pay attention to me in the ring — she will nibble a brown stalk of weed, or try to dig for grass. I can take some space, and we can keep up that little game for a long time, she either gets annoyed (although she doesn’t do anything mean to me) or she stops moving. I’ve even tapped her rump lightly with the reed — or the backs of her legs — if she is “stuck” — but sometimes I think that just makes her behave more stubbornly. Sometimes, she looks like she wants to bite. Is there any hope for us???
On the positive side, when I put out little piles of hay in the pasture in the morning, she usually chooses the first pile I put down (and she has learned to wait until I put it on the ground before she can eat it), but she will often come over and eat off the pile nearest where I am standing. So there are glimmers of possibilities, but I don’t know.
After getting the Morab, even though he can be skittish, he is definitely more responsive than she is — I feel like we’ve made more progress with him in less than a week than I’ve made in two years with her! Okay, he is older and better trained — she is still young at seven, and I am not an experienced horse person. I am hoping that my daughter and I can learn from the older horse, so I can do better with the younger one. The thing is, my daughter is NOT a believer after seeing my struggles with the Haflinger. She wants to do things the “traditional” way with the gelding…..although she is so afraid that the Morab will bond better with me, she came out to sit on a bucket in the ring with me and him over the weekend!
Thanks for your insights.
We are on an journey with this new blog of mine and we are awake to it! I do apprecate all the appreciation everone is providing me. Appreciation is what brings clarity, inlightment and connections in harmony and order. Your appreciation is what gives me the intrest to share what I know.
Thank you Stina.
actually when Carolyn and I wrote to the Natural Horse Magazine (Nov/Dec issue 2008, then Carolyn wrote that Stinas horses could connect more to humans than other horses….
and i thought… is that really possible, now the more i learn, i can see how horses respond different if you have not “overtrained” or “bombproofed them” and i still have an “untamed” mare and an almost untouched foal.
Now i can learn so many new things and then i have improved my skills i look forward to work with these 2 horses as well.
What a journey you are taking us on Carolyn!
I enjoy these posts very much, my wild horses have responded very different than the tamed ones I have been with before. We desensitized 2 of the wild ones, packing them in plastics and that stuff (before being coached by Carolyn) and had a harder time coming back when i asked them to go away.
Hi Carolyn,
. I have never seen him stand so calm beside for so long before. Normally he wants to play or eat his food.
even if its outside but now he was listening and looked interested.
I listened to the download of you answering questions the other night. I was using my phone and headset. Sitting in the stable with my horse.
It wasnt long before he simply stood right beside me like he was listening too
Afterwords I felt the need to dance, so I played music (still in headphones) and dances around in his stable (not much more then 3X3 meters). Normally he thinks Im crazy when I try
I removed the headphones and the music came from my phone. He was SO interested. I turned it up and started to really dance. Normally this would be too much for him but not this night !
Please do some more question- teleseminars – you and Anna.
I love the way you helped the people who called. And I learned so much…. and my horse loved it too !!!
Best wishes to all of you Tonnya
I enjoy all your blogs and look forward to them.
It is so easy to get caught up in the rules of a particular technique. You are quite right when you suggest that people should use the technique as a tool and use creativity in their own situations. Of course it all sounds much easier than it is and that is why people would just like someone else to tell them what to do.
I was having trouble with my horse crowding at feeding time. I started driving him off as soon as I got to the gate with the food. Now he sees me at the gate with his food and leaves down the fence line and then works his way back up when I am finished.
At first I felt bad…I know…silly…but then I realized that I had influenced his behavior and even though it seems like a small thing to others it seemed like a big stride to me.
I have also tried driving him from behind and it is working really well.
Lucinda
Great blog from you Carolyn and interesting comments -the rigidity of just subscribing to a particular method and rules is stifling and suppresses real feeling and connection in any reationship and just when you thinkyou have it all sussed , then an experience will come along that humbles and brings you back to what is real and present rather that in the realms of the ideal I am continually being humbled in a good and enjoyable way by spending time with the horses and Carolyn your approach,advice and rituals are helping me clear my confusion over rules and which method which is great i still am learning about timing and patience and being aware in the moment -but am progressing and I am sure the my horses acknowledge it and are more relaxed It is also helping me with work, acceptance and my own control issues in working with trauma great stuff
Pam, Rules are made to be broken and followed when a true bond and trust is formed. Relationship is important to maintain. When rules get in the way of relatioship I throw them out. I have never been sorry with I have done this. I have been sorry from follow rules just becase it is a rule. When we set rules we behave more like cops. Don’t get me wrong I am strong with horses but I use my strengt to build their trust and loyality and my likability with horses.
My strength is not used to creat a perfromance but rather order and trust. Thank you for your thoughts.
I have notice that when something does not feel right about a rule of horsemanship but is still follow because it is a rule usually has a negitive result.
Rules in horsemanship can be like training wheels of a bike for students learing about horses. But when the training wheels get in the way of a horse’s self respect we need to find a diffrent solution.
There are many many methods that can fit the horses need for self respect.
Ann I agree with you.
It seems our modern society frowns on sensitivity in people and stands to reason it would be the same with horses. I think it takes alot of time and creativity to be able to keep that sensitivity intact in a horse – so many people I know don’t want to spend that much time with their horses. My sensitive TB requires alot of just hanging out time (which I love to do). I’m glad to hear there are others who enjoy their horses company as much as I do. I’ve been led to believe by some that this is not normal.
Thanks Carolyn for mentioning that we can choose for our horses to be overly friendly and in our space a little then choose when we are not liking the closeness! That is exactly how I am with my horse and it feels right to me – he understands when I have had enough too. I think if we follow conventional trainers methods we would not ever allow the closeness in the first place, and what a shame that would be.
Carolyn, I love your weekly articles and I find your methods and your insight very useful. I have a 6 year old appy that most people deem ‘bomb proof’. Friends have nominated him to ride in the Stampede Parade here in Calgary because he is so calm and happy and doesn’t get stressed about anything. I do not hesitate to put my young children on him because of a mutual trust him and I have for each other. I don’t believe he is ‘bomb proof’ as I don’t believe that even exists. Horses are still an animal and as well as I know my horse and trust him, if it came down to life or death, I think he would choose survival. I think leadership and trust make a horse more ‘bomb proof’ and once the horse knows that he is safe with you, than he his calmer and more willing.
I agree and see so much of what Carolyn writes about and all your feedbacks! I too see the horses of mine who I felt “Oh, my gosh, they are so spooky” ARE the ones who are incredibly sensitive and attentive to my movements, requests and desires. They are the ones coming along the fastest. My “bombproof” mare is learning to actually listen to me, get her ears up and positive and move when I ask. My rescued, 15 year old trouble horse who is extremely dominant is learning now I am not putting up with the disrespect.
Like a kid, they learn from positive reinforcement (which could be as simple as being allowed to stay close). My young ones who I’m bringing up and haven’t been ruined by others “bomb proofing” methods are a joy to work with I get goose bumps!
Thanks Carolyn for reinforcing that communication and bondng is a very personal thing and not just something we learn off a check list.
Sincerely,
Stacy, Matlock, Henry Fonda, Viva O’fear, True, Zadyk and Lion’s Pistol,
we love you!!!
I love reading all the posts. Not only are the horses starting to shine and come through but us humans too. Not getting stuck on the technique and the “method” but using our instincts and heart. Carolyn, what you are doing on this blog is so gracious!!
Hi Carolyn,
I have a client who’s horse ignores leg pressure and pressure to move the horse away while in cross ties. He also doesn’t seem to care where and what he steps on in the aisle and will run himself into the wall while she lunges him. She has asked me to help her with him and I was feeling the sending away would be the first thing I should do with him. I’m sure it will tell me a lot about his sensitivity and willingness. This problems reminds me a little about what you were saying about the horse not wanting to leave. I have also dealt with another horse like this who would not care where his feet were. He would step on a bench in the aisle if he wanted to. This worries me when a horse will not care about hurting himself like that and also the running into walls. Have you ever dealt with this. I always dealt with sensitive horses like Arabians and Morgans and they never exhibited this behavior.
Thank you
Nancy Proulx
Valezka,Thank you for sharing.
Hi Carol, I agree and wonder if it is the traditional western training or the natural horsemanship training. I was told that she was stubborn and unresponsive and needed a firm hand. But the firm hand method isnt me and also doesnt work with her because it makes her more resistant and disasociated. It is as if she isnt here and hasnt a clue what Im talking about.
We have made some excelent progress though especially with firstly bonding and waiting for her to want to come and be with me, at first she didnt understand what I was waiting for and would not even look at me, now she is comming up and saying hello enthusiastically and I am very privillaged!!
Then the leading from behind and asking for forward movement because she would stand there and not get that we were walking forward, now she is walking and troting smoothly at a gently ask from my hand and body.
I then went to making eye contact because she wouldnt make eye contact at all and that is comming along very well and softly
Then I went back to asking her to ajust herself while eating and she wouldnt do it for the longest time because she wouldnt acknowledge me at all if she was eating. I got a little more energy up for this one and now she willingly ajusts herself to look at me or move her behind if I am comming along that way.
So slowly and softly she and I are comming along and these rituals are all adding up and making sense to both of us.
Funny how Mia who had a terrible life before me managed to keep her instincts and understands with the subtlest of movements or even thoughts.
Very powerful and intense stuff. These rituals make so much sense now that we have been using them for a couple of months.
I can only imagine what riding with a willing partner must be like and I am so looking forward to this.
Valezka
Hi Valezka,
I have the identical situation you do. My horse whose natural instincts were allowed to remain intact has bonded with me in a powerful and beautiful way, while my completely bombproof quarter horse had proved far more challenging to work with. Part of it is his dominance, but I’m also wondering if part of my difficulties stem from an inability to read my body language and his environment in a natural way. It stands to reason that if he had been conditioned to ignore so many sights and sounds when he was younger, he’s probably not going to even notice these subtleties now. Let’s hope that the rituals will be able to bring back the essence of these wonderful beings eventually. I think we’re both on our way. Best of luck with Candy. –Carol
Hi everyone, about the bombproof horse. I have Candy a 15 yo quarter horse mare who is what would be called the perfect bombproof horse and then there is Mia also quarterhorse who was rescued because she was a time bomb. I have always valued Candy over Mia because she can tolerate anything and have been worried about Mia because she couldnt seem to tolerate anything.
Since starting with the waterhole rituals it has been Mia the one with all her wits and instinct who has begun to shine and bond and communicate in a way that takes my breath away. We are going so well I cant believe the change in a few short months, but with Candy it has been hard to lead her from behind, or to send her away or for her to understand body language. And now I realize that I am talking to her in a language that although it should be natural to her, it has been taken away from her and now we must work together to relearn. Can you believe that?
So in essence what these rituals are doing is bringing out the true nature of each mare (and the woman too) and it has been like stripping back all the past lessons Candy has learnt to get to the real her and then get her to come out and play.
Thanks for everyones insights.
Kammie,
When working with a hrose that is a biter I have found it is better instead of saying “no” to a horse, ” and don’t ever think “no”. Send him out of your personal space very nicely and slowly instead. keep him away from you untill he gives up wanting to come back.
You could improve your hrors’s biting with this exercise.
Put food down on the ground and say to your horse eat and bend down with him and then after a moment of good eating say head up and pull your hear up fast. If his head does not come up in a second take a reed and swish it agressive in the air and touch the top of his croup with it as if to swant a fly. This should get his head up. Then say “Wait” strongly. They say “Good boy” and then repeat. You can do this about 5 minuets and then let him eat the rest. While he is eating be with him and feel the joy of standing near (he will understand your thoughts) and then groom him in the way he would like and then put him up.
It should help with the bond and the respct at the same time if you do this on a regular bases. If at any time he gets defencive you can always ask him to leave.
Spend plenty of sharing space with him with out training. You might put some treats under your chair that you are sitting on. If he is nice and does not bit you can give him a treat. If he is rude drive him away and keep him away untill he disconnects and lets you set down with out following you back and then sit down and wait and then repeat. Do not do this exercise if you do not get a good result right away unless you can seen that it is really going to work out well for you.
Let me know how this works out.
Sandra,
When I ask a horse to go trot they have no idea at first what I mean other than my body language as their guide. the reason I say go trot ist that they do respond to the energy. Trot is a comand sound and they will pick up their energy when leaving. To the horse I use the word only to create urgency to go now! I redevine the meaning late on after my horses have the last two rituals in order then I teach the requests for walk,trot and canter. I usually train the oral comands in a round pen.
As usuall develop your way of cueing aids and your approach in the way it a you choose.
Hi Carolyn
Thank you for taking the time for this blog–it is so very helpful. I have a 5 year-old mare, ridden for 18 months, who has always enjoyed tactile interaction–she loves being scratched. She will stand in a large paddock for up to half an hour or more to be massaged and scratched. It is my main way of rewarding her when training, because she gets nippy with food treats (although I’m working on that, with the help of your DVDs). My question is about sending away. Sometimes when I’ve finished scratching and I move away, she follows me with her ears back, then pushes in front of me, obviously wanting more scratchies. I like to spend time with her, but I don’t like the way she asks for attention. I’m thinking that I should send her away (she does go), then draw her back in again when she stops looking snarky.
We haven’t got to leading from behind yet, but the other day I stood behind and to one side and clucked at her. She stood very still for a moment, thinking (go forward? go back? what does she want?), then moved her hindquarters across to give me the other eye. I thought it was a creative solution on her part!
cheers
Maxine
Carol, I am very interested in your views on why not to bomb proof a horse! I always secretly not been interested in it, mainly because the horses I have seen that are “bombproof” seem to not have any life or enthusiasm in them either. The owners of these horses have to constantly crack the lung whip while lunging them as well – when my horse hears a whip cracking he wants to bolt which can be a little scary for me to deal with at times.
I am also curious to know whether anyone else has experienced this: When I want my horse to trot while on a walk and he doesn’t repsond the first time, I start to trot myself but I stomp my feet real hard on the ground – this brings up the life in him and desire to go into that gait. I always enjoy the look on his face that goes along with this as well. I’m wondering why the stomping of feet has that effect.
Regards,
Pam
Kris your horse is perfect.
I allow my horses to be overly friendship if I can move them away or they would stay away on my request or halt on any spot in the arena I would suggest.
I allow my horses to play in my personal space sometimes and sometimes not. I choose the not if I am loosing control from the closness.
What ever you feel good about choose that.
Sounds like you have a great relationship.
Thanks Carolyn!
Stuart
Hi Carolyn,
I love this blog entry! I also love that your method allows for everyone to accomplish important tasks by studying their own horse’s behavior and allowing us to be creative with our solutions. Ever since you told me of the importance of being able to send a horse away, I’ve been trying to figure out how to accomplish it with my horse Doolie. He is quite the dominant fellow, so I often would only get him to move away just a few steps at a trot before he’d stop and face me or start nibbling leaves. I once asked too aggressively, and he responded with a resounding kick in my direction, which then left me scrambling for alternate solutions. After a while, it became clear that the reason he doesn’t leave me is because he doesn’t respect my leadership yet. As I’ve mentioned in previous blogs, he’s always had a problem with flat ears as well. In an effort to correct the ears and adjust the attitude that comes with them, I also began to solve the dilemma of how to send him away successfully. When I began asking that Doolie’s ears point toward me anytime he wants something, I began to get his attention and slowly began to gain more respect in his eyes. I now won’t let him out of his stall in the morning, feed him his hay, give him carrots etc. until he shows me that he’s willing to act like a gentleman with me. We still have days that this is a chore for him, but he’s a smart horse and now knows what he needs to do. I found that by working on these respect-building moments in addition to several of the other rituals, his attitude was slowly changing at liberty. Doolie still won’t trot off easily like my other horse will, but he’s much more willing to step out when I ask him to rather than being so terribly defiant like he used to be. I used to think his dominance was the only reason for him to challenge me, but your comment that desensitized horses have learned not to be as observant as other horses was quite insightful as well. I don’t know what his training was before I brought him home, but Doolie is THE MOST bombproof horse on the planet. Thanks for pointing that out in your article. I hadn’t really considered that before, but now that you mention it, I’m quite sure that’s another reason he’s not as cued into me as I’d like.
Thanks again for all your valuable insights. I look forward to reading your thoughts about bomb-proofing next time –Carol
Hi Carolyn,
I have also experienced that very aggressive horses won’t leave you either because they want to dominate you or eat you. When you do get them to go and can do it successfully more than once it is a great confidence booster. I have a horse that liked to bite. In fact, he is gelded but still behaves like a stallion. In working with him with your methods it took quite a bit for me to get to the point of leading him from the behind. Wow, though when I did it really changed our relationship. I had an interesting thing happen though while trying to accomplish this.
Anytime I was near him or next to him he would reach his long neck out and try to nibble or bite me. He is half Belgian so he is a big horse. So I could be standing quite far. The whole goal was to have him allow me next to him and move behind him without him exploding. So when he would reach out to get me I would say no. He began to associate my no with having to move off. I didn’t even have to make a motion he just went. I thought I was treaching him something bad but as I was working with him three days in a row, I noticed on the third day when I said no and he began to respect it and not try harder to bite me. I went on a bussiness trip and came home and he wasn’t trying to bite me. In addition, if he thinks about it and I say no he stops. So I may not have used your methods perfectly but am pleased with the results. A last note, since this horse was so aggressive and was abused to boot, I really had to learn to stand my ground and control my emotions. I had to figure out how to get softer and softer in my requests while maintaining my boundry of no biting. That alone has done wonders for our relationship. I kept having to think how can I get softer and do this. It has been good for all my realtionships.
Very interesting article. I am waiting to hear why we shouldnt bombproof. Please include in that what to do if we have already bombproofed which I am sure 99% of people have done or bought one that already is, as a first horse, being calm etc.
Thank you so much for all your posts Carolyn!, you have no idea how much you have helped me, I am not selling my yearling any more, he loves it when I work with my body lenguage, I think that way he really understands what I want from him. Regarding this post, I wanted to know if you need to first verbally train a young horse to understand what trot means for them to actually trot off when you ask them to, or it’s just something learned with body lenguage in that moment. My older TB knows all his cues and he will trot off when I tell him and come back if I call him back; but with the yearlings who do not know their verbal cues yet, they will just walk away when I send them off. Is this something that can be taught at that moment with just body lenguage (if the horse is responsive to body lenguage)?; or should the verbal cues be learned first so that the horse doesn’t get confused and knows exactly what to do.
Hi Carolyn
Do you see it as disrespectful if a horse persistently wants to be close and tactile, if they are prepared to move away as soon as asked? My mare is happy to spend hours hanging out and if i move her off to do something she will return as soon as the opportunity arises – I could keep her away if I paid attention to it, but if I start focussing on something else she will be right back with me. Because I enjoy her attention I worry I might be blinded to some negative aspect!
Kirsty